Quick question about TO&E

[WABAC]

For the TO&E of an American infantry battalion I see the number 500, which is made up of veteran and green troops.

Where does this number come from? What does it represent?

I ask because the rifle companies had ~190 men, and the heavy weapons company had ~160 men, then there is a recon platoon, and an AT platoon. So I am guessing something must be subtracted? Like the men in crew-served weapons squads? Like company HQ of a rifle company theoretically had ~35 men in the TO&E. But if I subtracts all of those men, I get a total of ~415.

So, what's the word if I wanted to create units from other time periods or forces?

I did search, but couldn't find it here, or in the manual. That could be my problem. This is my first Decisive Campaigns title, so maybe I'm covering old ground.

[Oberst_Klink]

For the TO&E of an American infantry battalion I see the number 500, which is made up of veteran and green troops.

Where does this number come from? What does it represent?

I ask because the rifle companies had ~190 men, and the heavy weapons company had ~160 men, then there is a recon platoon, and an AT platoon. So I am guessing something must be subtracted? Like the men in crew-served weapons squads? Like company HQ of a rifle company theoretically had ~35 men in the TO&E. But if I subtracts all of those men, I get a total of ~415.

So, what's the word if I wanted to create units from other time periods or forces?

I did search, but couldn't find it here, or in the manual. That could be my problem. This is my first Decisive Campaigns title, so maybe I'm covering old ground.

AFAIK, Davide uses this and other publications about TO&E.

http://www.bayonetstrength.uk/

Klink, Oberst

[WABAC]

For the TO&E of an American infantry battalion I see the number 500, which is made up of veteran and green troops.

Where does this number come from? What does it represent?

I ask because the rifle companies had ~190 men, and the heavy weapons company had ~160 men, then there is a recon platoon, and an AT platoon. So I am guessing something must be subtracted? Like the men in crew-served weapons squads? Like company HQ of a rifle company theoretically had ~35 men in the TO&E. But if I subtracts all of those men, I get a total of ~415.

So, what's the word if I wanted to create units from other time periods or forces?

I did search, but couldn't find it here, or in the manual. That could be my problem. This is my first Decisive Campaigns title, so maybe I'm covering old ground.

AFAIK, Davide uses this and other publications about TO&E.

http://www.bayonetstrength.uk/

Klink, Oberst

Yes, I have that link too. And I have a nice collection of anything that can be scraped for free from the internet.

But it doesn't answer my question. Why 500 men in a US Infantry battalion? Why not 570 if there are three companies of 170 men each?

From what I read here, Davide is busy, so I'll wait for him to chime in. There's certainly lots of game-playing to be had in the meantime. I'm glad I bought the game.

[nikdav]

It's no easy deploy in the battlefield the real combat strenght of a battalion, the official full US infantry battalion is roughly 860 men !
The simple answer is that you must add to the 500 GI, the crew of any weapons, so Bazooka (2men), Truck (2men), AT guns (3-5men), mortars (3-4men), and so on.........and i use sometimes a % reduction of specific unit strength based on the divisional history.
The To&e is not hard coded, if you want, can easily fixed or modded in the editor and than reload the modded library in the scenario. (first backup the original files).

Davide

this is a nice Osprey table:

US infantry.jpg (204.72 KiB) Viewed 1102 times

[WABAC]

It's no easy deploy in the battlefield the real combat strenght of a battalion, the official full US infantry battalion is roughly 860 men !
The simple answer is that you must add to the 500 GI, the crew of any weapons, so Bazooka (2men), Truck (2men), AT guns (3-5men), mortars (3-4men), and so on.........and i use sometimes a % reduction of specific unit strength based on the divisional history.
The To&e is not hard coded, if you want, can easily fixed or modded in the editor and than reload the modded library in the scenario. (first backup the original files).

Davide

this is a nice Osprey table:
US infantry.jpg

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate the support we get in these forums. And I wouldn't be asking questions if I wasn't enjoying the game.

Is it possible to edit the unit types in one place? Or would I have to edit each individual unit and recreate the scenario from scratch?

Is it possible to edit elements of the leg units like infantry, staff, rear area, vehicles, crew served weapons? Can we create new types? Are leg units generic or nation specific?

Would strange things happen if I added staff into infantry battalions or other units that don't currently have any?

If I was to start editing battalions the process might look something like the following (some readers may wish to tune out now before it gets really boring )

Let's start with a US infantry company TO&E 7-17, available here https://www.alternatewars.com/Nafziger/ ... 3-1945.htm as broken out by George Nafziger.

Detailed Organization
American Infantry Division,
Infantry Rifle Company
26 February 1944
Table of Organization 7-17
Company Headquarters:
1 Captain (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 1st Lieutenant (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 1st Sergeant (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Staff Sergeant (mess)(1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Staff Sergeant (supply)(1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Sergeant (communications)(1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Corporal (company clerk)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
28 Privates
1 Armorer-artificier (1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
1 Bugler (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
4 Cooks (4 .30 cal M1 rifles)
2 Cook's Helpers (4 .30 cal M1 rifles)
3 Messengers (4 .30 cal M1 carbines)
17 Basics (17 .30 cal M1 rifles)
unassigned company equipment
5 2.36" rocket launchers
Weapons Platoon
Platoon Headquarters
1 1st Lieutenant (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Technical Sergeant (platoon leader)(1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
4 Privates
2 Light Truck Drivers (2 .30 cal M1 rifles,
2 ¼-ton trucks, 2 ¼-ton trailers, 1 .50 cal HB
flexible HMG)
2 Messengers (2 .30 cal M1 carbines)
60mm Mortar Section
Section Headquarters
1 Staff Sergeant (section leader)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
1 Private (messenger)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
3 Mortar Squads, each with:
1 Corporal (squad leader)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
4 Privates
2 Ammunition bearers (2 .30 cal M1 carbines)
1 Gunner (1 .45 cal pistol & 1 60mm mortar)
1 Asst. Gunner (1 .45 cal pistol)
Light Machine Gun Section
Section Headquarters:
1 Staff Sergeant (section leader)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
1 Private (messenger)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
2 Light Machine Gun Squads, each with:
1 Corporal (squad leader)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
4 Privates
2 Ammunition bearers (2 .30 cal M1 carbines)
1 Gunner (1 .45 cal pistol & 1 .30 cal LMG)
1 Asst. Gunner (1 .45 cal pistol)

3 Rifle Platoons, each with:
Platoon Headquarters:
1 1st/2nd Lieutenant (1 .30 cal M1 carbine)
1 Technical Sergeant (platoon leader)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
1 Staff Sergeant (platoon guide)(1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
2 Messengers (2 .30 cal M1 rifles)
3 Rifle Squads, each with:
1 Staff Sergeant (squad leader) (1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
1 Corporal (asst. squad leader) (1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
10 Privates
1 Ammunition Bearer (1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
7 Riflemen (7 .30 cal M1 rifles)
1 Automatic Rifleman (1 M1918A2 BAR)
1 Asst. Automatic Rifleman (1 .30 cal M1 rifle)
Note: The only change between this TO&E and that of 7/15/43 is that
there has been a creep upwards of the ranks allocated to the various
squad leader and other sergeants. In addition, the number of
bazookas (2.36" rocket launchers) has been raised from 3 to 5 and
they are reassigned at the company headquarters level, rather than in
the weapons platoon headquarters.
Source: US TO&E Documentation obtained at US Army Historical Center, Carlisle
Barracks, PA
Copyright GFN 1999

If we were to include the count of the LMG squads with the infantry we would come up with 46 infantry for a rifle company.

How might we sort staff from rear area?

The infantry platoon has 5 staff by my count. But they could also be counted as infantry.

For the weapons platoon there is an HQ. and section HQ 's for the mortar squad and LMG squad. So I get 6 staff. The truck drivers and crews add up to 19 rear area. We also see two HMG's on the jeeps BTW.

Looking at the company HQ, I count the officers and non com's as 7 staff, and the rest adds up to 28 rear area. We also see 5 bazookas on hand.

Adding it up, I get 138 infantry, 13 staff, and 47 support for a company. So before looking at the rest of the elements of a battalion, we're starting with only 414 infantry, plus 39 staff,141 support, 6 HMG's on jeeps, and 15 bazookas.

Your mileage may vary.

[nikdav]

You can mod all trooptypes and unit models but you have only 8 slots limit for the unit, so if you count GI, GIgreen, bazooka, mortar60, mortar81, trucks......we have very few alternative.

[WABAC]

You can mod all trooptypes and unit models but you have only 8 slots limit for the unit, so if you count GI, GIgreen, bazooka, mortar60, mortar81, trucks......we have very few alternative.

Got it. I'm still enjoying game play. If I get around to creating a scenario I'll post questions in the design sub-forum where they belong.

Looking at the Plan Martin map it seems like it would be easy enough to do scenarios on Hurtgen Forest and the capture of Aachen.

Thank you for your time.

[ernieschwitz]

How might we sort staff from rear area?

The infantry platoon has 5 staff by my count. But they could also be counted as infantry.

I am not sure that making staff function in units by themselves will work. As I understand it, they are only able to give bonuses to units under the command of the HQ they are in. Makes them sort of less useful in formations themselves.

[WABAC]

How might we sort staff from rear area?

The infantry platoon has 5 staff by my count. But they could also be counted as infantry.

I am not sure that making staff function in units by themselves will work. As I understand it, they are only able to give bonuses to units under the command of the HQ they are in. Makes them sort of less useful in formations themselves.

Given the slot limit, and unit size, I would treat them as support if I were to create a scenario. But until I fiddle with the editors, I don't really have much of an idea about the qualities of these individuals.