Indestructible Fortresses

[paul watkins]

Has anyone figured out how to deal with allied heavy bombers ?
Despite sending up twice as many fighters against these beasts, at best I may shoot down a couple and force maybe six to turn around. These are
experienced unfatigued Zeros facing unescorted bombers, and yet I find
the allied opponent destroying my supplies and docked ships at will.
I realize the last patch prevented so many Zeros being shot down by these beasts, but I still find their ability to completely destroy all supply at a base with these unescorted long range runs( Luganville to Lunga, PM to Shortland ) to be pretty unrealistic ( as far as I know ). I am finding this
along with absolutely no ASW capabilities of the Japanese to be a real drawback to this game. Seems the Japanese chances in this game all hinge on completely destroying the American carriers early on, as BB laden airbase bombardment fleets seem to be the only way to get such bombers on the ground with much effect. Betties and Nells are hopeless
in this task in early 43.

[Zeta16]

When I play as the Japanese I love when the US player flies missions from Luganville to Lugna. This is because he takes great ops loses. Remember the B12 replacement rate is not that high. So keep on flying from Luganville.

[Philwd]

Hi Paul,
Welcome to the club. The US 2E mediums are almost as bad as they act like a 4E bomber vs fighters.
Things you can do:
mass fighters
put lots of AA at logical bases
Use altitude. Stay several thousand feet above the bombers.
Night bomb Us air bases at couple thousand feet. Repeat every non-storm turn. Experienced Betties and Nells will work.
and of course base bombardments by naval forces.

By doing this you will never turn back a raid but will slowly attrit his force.

BTW there was a very involved thread on the subject of B17 game results vs real life. It may have been lost due to the forum damage but try and searching for it among the archives. Short answer is it may not be fun for the IJN player but its close to RL.

Cheers,
Quark

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Japanese can stop B-17 (and other 4 and 2 engine bombers).

I will try to find old threads with info about that but short advice is to properly use Japanese fighters (regarding altitude and EXP, morale and fatigue settings)...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Gen.Hoepner]

Well it must be difficult for the jap player to stop us heavy bombers. But this doesn't mean tou can't do that. The AA is very important in these cases. The Cap is foundamental too if well used. Check the exp and morale of your fighters. Use the altitude level in the proper way. You cannot expect to shoot down everything he throws against your bases but few kills, the ops losses and the AA strong fire will surely put his squadrons in a difficult situation. You must push him in the situation where it doesn't worth any longer to do these bombing missions regarding to the relationship between Losses and Results.

[crsutton]

And I don't think it is accurate to say that the Japanese can't sink subs. American subs can be sunk. When you are not attacking with them, (should be most of the time) set your Bettys and Nells on about 60% ASW at varying altitudes between 1000 to 6000 feet. If you carriers are in port and rested, set all your vals and kates on about 50% ASW. If the Americans are operating near your bases, you will start sinking their subs at an alarming rate. The key is to use highly experienced air units. I just sank four pig boats and severely damaged two others in the course of about three turns.

Japanese DDs and PC can sink subs as well when used correctly.

Once you sink or damaged a number of the old pig boats, you have little to worry about from the fleet boats, as they mostly miss due to defective torpedoes.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Agreed with Apollo and sutton - IJN can stop both B17s and subs in most cases it just takes lots of experimentation, trial and error, and "adjusting" to your opponent's style of play.

But once you get the right parameters, they can be stopped, and you can just imagine the face of your opponent when he unexpectedly starts losing 10-some B17s or several subs per turn.

O.

[Philwd]

Yeah Oleg,
Just a few turns ago in my game with Condor I shot down or damaged in a single turn 65% of the ~60 4E's that hit Lunga. He didn't come back for a while.[:D]

Quark

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

I was unable to find old threads with AAR's but here is what I managed to do in my PBEMs.

Please note that direct loss of enemy (i.e. in direct air-to-air) is not that high but many many damaged enemy aircraft didn't make home (they crashed) so end result is always better.

Therefore it is very good to damage large number of enemy aircraft when they are on mission far away from their home...


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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/20/42

Weather: Partly Cloudy

Air attack on Lunga , at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
A6M3 Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 61

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 4 destroyed
B-17E Fortress x 15 damaged

PO2 I.Kamihira of F2/6th Daitai is credited with kill number 2

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 72

Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 24

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress at 5000 feet

NOTE: Actual result was 11 destroyed B-17.

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/09/42

Weather: Overcast

Air attack on Lunga , at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 54
A6M3 Zero x 26

Allied aircraft
Hudson x 29
B-26B Marauder x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson x 14 destroyed
Hudson x 6 damaged
B-26B Marauder x 2 destroyed

CPO A.Komachi of F1/252nd Daitai is credited with kill number 3

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Air attack on Lunga , at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 54
A6M3 Zero x 26

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 36
B-24D Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged
D3A Val x 4 destroyed
D3A Val x 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 2 destroyed
B-17E Fortress x 25 damaged
B-24D Liberator x 11 damaged

ENS R.Fujita of F1/Tainan Daitai is credited with kill number 2

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 51

Airbase hits 7
Runway hits 31

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
6 x B-24D Liberator at 14000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
2 x B-24D Liberator at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
8 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet

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Air attack on Lunga , at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 43
A6M3 Zero x 26

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 1 destroyed
B-17E Fortress x 17 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 12

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 10

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 14000 feet

NOTE: Actual result was around 10 B-17, 5 B-24 and 15 Hudson destroyed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/20/42

Weather: Partly Cloudy

Air attack on Irau , at 42,43

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 78
A6M3 Zero x 67
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 49

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 10 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 10 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 23 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 12

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet

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Air attack on Irau , at 42,43

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
A6M3 Zero x 31

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 4 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 2 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 42
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 6

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 7000 feet

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Air attack on 141st Regiment, at 42,43

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 77
A6M3 Zero x 65

Allied aircraft
Hudson x 6
P-38G Lightning x 60
A-20B Boston x 9
B-25D Mitchell x 16
B-26B Marauder x 34
A-20B Havoc x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 16 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 8 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 7 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson x 4 destroyed
P-38G Lightning x 15 destroyed
P-38G Lightning x 15 damaged
A-20B Boston x 3 destroyed
A-20B Boston x 3 damaged
B-25D Mitchell x 1 destroyed
B-25D Mitchell x 4 damaged
B-26B Marauder x 2 destroyed
B-26B Marauder x 5 damaged
A-20B Havoc x 4 destroyed
A-20B Havoc x 2 damaged

1LT E. Brogden of 35th FS is credited with kill number 4

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 15

Attacking Level Bombers:
5 x B-25D Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x A-20B Boston at 3000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
2 x A-20B Havoc at 2000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x A-20B Havoc at 2000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x B-25D Mitchell at 100 feet
5 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet
3 x A-20B Havoc at 2000 feet
1 x Hudson at 3000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 1000 feet

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Air attack on 141st Regiment, at 42,43

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
A6M3 Zero x 26

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 2 damaged


Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-24D Liberator at 8000 feet

NOTE: Actual result was around 15 B-17, 3+4 A-20B, 2 B-25D, 3 B-26B and 20 P-38 destroyed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Leo "Apollo11"