Largest known scenario in Command history?

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Dimitris
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RE: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Dimitris »

ORIGINAL: zclark
If it is the CPU, my next question would be how much of a difference in performance would we see with an Intel i9 10900k or Ryzen 9 5950X gaming CPU compared to a workstation PC CPU like a Ryzen Threadripper.

While CMO is inherently more scalable than CMANO, 6-8 hardware threads (either cores or cores x2 in hyperthreaded CPUs) are still the sweet spot ATM. Heavy-hitters like Threadripper, Epyc or Xeon typically offer more cores but not significantly higher clock frequencies. (They also offer much bigger caches which are always useful). So unless you are a pro user, running multiple Command instances in parallel, these CPUs are a rather poor investment.
I wonder what specs users of the PE version of CMANO run and how large their scenarios are.
Pros often run multiple instances in parallel, so they can easily max out even monster CPUs if they want.
thewood1
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RE: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by thewood1 »

I just upgraded from an i7-9850h to an i9-10980hk. I have a benchmark scenario I run over the last seven years on every new laptop. The move from the i7 to the i9 saw only a couple % increase in CMO performance. Both had 16Gb of RAM. I upgraded to 32 Gb of faster RAM and that actually had a noticeable difference in CMO performance.
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

Is it possible that ground units are using more CPU resources than other unit types ?
Because I'm currently developing a scenario with "only" 3.000 AU but it includes many ground units (infantry/armors/etc) and it's VERY slow. Much slower than the above mentioned "Northern Fury 34" with same amount of AU.
I have the impression that ground combat is tougher for CPU than the rest. Could it be the case ?
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BDukes
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by BDukes »

nukkxx5058 wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:51 am Is it possible that ground units are using more CPU resources than other unit types ?
Because I'm currently developing a scenario with "only" 3.000 AU but it includes many ground units (infantry/armors/etc) and it's VERY slow. Much slower than the above mentioned "Northern Fury 34" with same amount of AU.
I have the impression that ground combat is tougher for CPU than the rest. Could it be the case ?
Off hand.

Anytime you activate the navigation code (you recognize it when you see the dotted line plotting redraws) it'll cost you. If you're moving 3000 units through difficult terrain you can probably roast marshmallows on your CPU case.

Detections can play a role too. Sometimes certain sides or units don't need to be part of that chum line. Good news is lua can help as you can switch a unit's target evaluation and primary target from the default true to false (so turns hem off!).Keep in mind if you want those land units shooting then this may not be useful. Make sure you back up your work before you try this.


AI_DeterminePrimaryTarget_enabled = false
AI_EvaluateTargets_enabled = false


Here's an example from what I likely grabbed and modified from somebody else. I'm creating lists of units to switch the variables above to false. Any of you Lua dorks want to judge, I like it sloppy- just like your moms. :twisted:
sh=ScenEdit_GetSideIsHuman("IDF")
if sh==true then
local listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnNeutralSide = VP_GetSide({side='Neutral Air and Sea Traffic'}).units
local listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnTurkeySide = VP_GetSide({side='Turkey'}).units
local listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnJordanSide = VP_GetSide({side='Jordan'}).units
local listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnWBGCivSide = VP_GetSide({side='Lebanon-Gaza-Westbank Civ'}).units
local listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith = {}
for k,v in ipairs (listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnNeutralSide)do
local unit = ScenEdit_GetUnit({guid=v.guid})
table.insert(listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith,unit)
end
for k,v in ipairs (listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnTurkeySide)do
local unit = ScenEdit_GetUnit({guid=v.guid})
table.insert(listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith,unit)
print ("'"..unit.guid.."', --"..unit.name.." ("..unit.classname..") added to list of units to work with..")
end
for k,v in ipairs (listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnJordanSide)do
local unit = ScenEdit_GetUnit({guid=v.guid})
table.insert(listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith,unit)
end
for k,v in ipairs (listOfGUIDsForAllUnitsOnWBGCivSide)do
local unit = ScenEdit_GetUnit({guid=v.guid})
table.insert(listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith,unit)
end
print ('List complete! '..#listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith..' units added to list.')
local counter = 0
for k,v in ipairs (listOfUnitsIWantToWorkWith) do
local unit = ScenEdit_GetUnit({guid=v.guid})
unit.AI_DeterminePrimaryTarget_enabled = false
unit.AI_EvaluateTargets_enabled = false

print (unit.name..' AI disabled!')
counter = counter + 1
end
print ('Run complete, AI disabled for '..counter..' units.')
else
end
"Smart people just shrug and admit they're dazed and confused. The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb". HST
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

Thanks for this ! Interesting ! But will need some time to digest it in full :-)
Will make some tests ...
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

3 things before trying the recommendation:
a- How does it differ from "blind" setting (in side settings) ?
b- Unfortunately, I won't be able to turn off AI for many units as I'm expecting lots of ground combat. My scenario is about the invasion of Cameroon by China defended by France so it will have 100s of ground units fighting in the country.
c- I noticed that on a large scenario with many ground units, it's like if "something builds-up" during the game making it more and more laggy with time. When it becomes too laggy, I just save and reload my save, and it's much better for a while. Then the "something builds-up" again and lag returns. Did you guys noticed something like that too ?
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BDukes
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by BDukes »

nukkxx5058 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:16 pm a- How does it differ from "blind" setting (in side settings) ?
Good question and I have no idea. Lua documentation doesn't get into it and my scenario does both but I never sunk time into learning the differences.
b- Unfortunately, I won't be able to turn off AI for many units as I'm expecting lots of ground combat. My scenario is about the invasion of Cameroon by China defended by France so it will have 100s of ground units fighting in the country.
I built lists of units to run the switches on by side. You may be able to do so by facility type. If you have a lot of buildings that don't need to see stuff this may be a place to test and see value.
c- I noticed that on a large scenario with many ground units, it's like if "something builds-up" during the game making it more and more laggy with time. When it becomes too laggy, I just save and reload my save, and it's much better for a while. Then the "something builds-up" again and lag returns. Did you guys noticed something like that too ?
Yeah good observation. It usually shakes out to be the nav code trying to work something or alot of something out. Good news is you can usually visually see it going on with plots lines being redrawn and notice in the unit panel.



Mike
"Smart people just shrug and admit they're dazed and confused. The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb". HST
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

As a test I tried to disable everything (even combat units that need AI) except on one playable side but strangely it doesn't seem to make a big difference ..

Script output looks like that (but much larger as I erased most of the outputs to not explode the forum :-) )
'4YWDWP-0HMFF6EHSTTH4', --Civilians (Civilians) added to list of units to work with..
'4YWDWP-0HMFMS1SO6QLC', --Blue Blaster #2 (Airbus A.330-200) added to list of units to work with..
'4YWDWP-0HMFT3GQD8SE1', --A/C Hangar (6x Large Aircraft) (A/C Hangar (6x Large Aircraft)) added to list of units to work with..
Argonaut #2 AI disabled!
Argonaut #1 AI disabled!
Challenger #1 AI disabled!
Type 053H1G Jianghu V [558 Zigong] AI disabled!
Tiger #1 AI disabled!
Bull #8 AI disabled!
Bull #9 AI disabled!
Bull #10 AI disabled!
Bull #11 AI disabled!
[...]
Warhorse #11 AI disabled!
Warhorse #12 AI disabled!
Warhorse #13 AI disabled!
Warhorse #14 AI disabled!
Warhorse #15 AI disabled!
Warhorse #16 AI disabled!
Challenger #1 AI disabled!
Challenger #2 AI disabled!
Challenger #3 AI disabled!
Makurdi Civilian A/C Tarmac Space (4x Medium Aircraft) AI disabled!
Makurdi Civilian A/C Tarmac Space (4x Medium Aircraft) AI disabled!
Green Pawn #4 AI disabled!
China CVBG AI disabled!
Ghostrider #2 AI disabled!
Ghostrider #3 AI disabled!
A/C Hangar (4x Very Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
13AD #1 AI disabled!
13AD #2 AI disabled!
13AD #3 AI disabled!
CARGO Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
CARGO Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
CARGO Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
A/C Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
A/C Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
A/C Hangar (8x Large Aircraft) AI disabled!
Helipad (1x Large Helicopter) AI disabled!
SAM Bty (HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]) AI disabled!
SAM Bty (HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]) AI disabled!
Run complete, AI disabled for 1661 units.
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

According to my experience, it's more ground combat than ground movement that is very nasty for the CPU ... especially arty ... But I might be wrong ...
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BDukes
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by BDukes »

No it is your experience. That matters.

My perspective is land combat isn't out of the oven yet, if it is even a thing. I don't even think a direction has been publicly laid out although you can see some land combat things going on with pro. If you look at the DB now (with new land unit annex) you can reasonably assume that at least mobile land units are going to change and the hours you're sinking in now may not bear any fruit later. Fact you might spend a buttload of time converting. This being said I tell nobody what to do. If this makes you happy, have at it.

Good Luck!
"Smart people just shrug and admit they're dazed and confused. The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb". HST
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nukkxx5058
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by nukkxx5058 »

I will certainly try to turn off AI for all hangars and similar inert units using your script. I guess the difference with "blind" is that blind can only be applied to a whole side (like all civilian units) while your script and the AI command can be applied case by case, unit by unit. So it's very useful. Thanks for sharing it ! :-)

I hope that ground combat will continue to be developed because it's a paradigm change for scenario design ! I really like what has already be done even if I agree that lot is still to be done. I heard about improvements in PE you mentioned so I hope they will be brought to the commercial version as soon as possible.
But again, I think that what has been done it's already very satisfying (we know it will never be Combat Mission and it's definitely not the goal here) and I'm already having a lot of fun designing mammoth scenarios involving substantial land operations backed by air and naval to simulate the invasion of a whole country.

IMO the devs should definitely capitalize on that because mixed ops are definitely the right direction for this sim.

Thanks again for your inputs !
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Nikel
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Nikel »

I wanted to watch my PC exploding :)

But the scenarios posted cannot be loaded in the game:

Red Dragon Descends, 2017

China_Deployed_Bases_Mod_SAM


Also was cited Desert Storm 1991 - Beta ground

Are there new versions of them somewhere?

Though the record right now by size is Mediterranean Fury 4 – Secure the Flank.
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Gunner98
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Gunner98 »

Nikel wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:24 pm I wanted to watch my PC exploding :)

Though the record right now by size is Mediterranean Fury 4 – Secure the Flank.
I think that as far as Fury scenarios go, Northern Fury 34 - The Longest Battle probably takes the win for largest
Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook https://www.facebook.com/northernfury/
Nikel
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Nikel »

Oh, I thought it was related to the size of the file.

Secure the Flank size is 6400 kb.

While The longest battle is "only" 2800 kb.

The bigger size is due to some pics then?
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Gunner98
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Gunner98 »

I don't know. Secure the Flank is big & busy for sure but is focused on Syria. The Longest Battle, is the full Atlantic, Iceland to Falklands and 30 days long with lots of units. Never noticed the file size before, I don't remember photos in either briefing.

Interesting
Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
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Nikel
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Nikel »

This scenario by motoyuki1 must be the record, 35908 kb!

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1076160/ ... 446489174/


Anyone can load it in CMO?
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Gizzmoe
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Gizzmoe »

Nikel wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:15 pm This scenario by motoyuki1 must be the record, 35908 kb!

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1076160/ ... 446489174/

Anyone can load it in CMO?
Lol, yeah, that one is awesome :) I wish motoyuki1 would have answered my question about how many facilities are in there.
gennyo
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by gennyo »

I wonder how it was created. :mrgreen:
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Gizzmoe
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by Gizzmoe »

Maybe we will find out, I have just asked motoyuki1 on Steam to share some details here :)
motoyuki1970
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Re: Largest known scenario in Command history?

Post by motoyuki1970 »

Thanks for looking at my crazy file. :D
But I can not open it even using latest beta C:MO version because of that's size, maybe.
Is someone able to open that file on your C:MO?
Older and smaller version of this scenario file can be open, approximately 26.9MB.
I can not attach here it here, because it is too much huge.
Only thing I did for making this file is just install every .inst files of every nations, so I do not think there is any originality.
I have to mention that my file utilized "World Map" posted by Kettle.
My final goal is putting all sort of real world unit on map, it should cost several years to complete.
And I do not know it will be playable still after exceeding 100MB size..
I wish for 64bit ver. C:MO before I complete.
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