Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Please post your after action reports on your battles and campaigns here.

Moderator: Joel Billings

User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Turn 8 - August 10, 1941

More ominous weather for the Axis developing in the Artic.

Image

Turn summary shows Soviet army continuing to grow despite the 100k+ casualties suffered last week.

Image

:: Panzerball has entered the chat ::

The question of where did the AGC panzers go has been definitively answered. It appears certain at this point that AGS has also been robbed of all but three Pzr Divs (11th, 13th, and 14th) and the 16th Mot Div.
Units in the panzerball IDed so far:

Image

Armor highlighted across the frontline:

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

STAVKA reorients defenses by thinning out behind Kiev and shifting everyone possible north to provide some depth against the enormous number of hasty stack attacks the panzerball can deliver.

Without Pskov I have to think it will be hard to properly feed and fuel this enormous number of units. The Germans also have what could be as many as 40 infantry divisions also facing off under AGN. STAVKA determines this will require at least four Fronts to try and defend Leningrad, with some corps HQs managing reserves and diggers.

Change in AGN progress from end of turn 7 to end of turn 8.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Beethoven1
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:23 pm

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Beethoven1 »

Nicely done destroying the motorized division near Kiev. I think you should be able to hold Leningrad without much problem.
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

This is easily the best spot to defend against a panzerball due to the channeling effect of the impassable hexes and the irreducible defense modifiers of the terrain. But I knew I had to throw the kitchen sink at it. German strength lies in gaining operational freedom for their mech, and I avoided that by the barest margin last week.

Perversely, by parking his infantry and going extreme overweight he’s opened the door for me to do almost the same. The lack of mech from Velikie-Luki to Cherkassy means that any defense in depth is really just icing and available reserves to thin and shift the line north or south.

I think while the Axis need a strategic focus in ‘41, overdoing it frees up the opponent and limits their concerns.

I was more curious what the supply situation would be with the German unit density, and the fact I had briefly held Riga and still held Tallinn and Pskov.
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Hardradi
Posts: 836
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:16 am
Location: Swan River Colony

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Hardradi »

Seminole wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:15 am A huge attack is launched on the besieged 60th Mot Div and they surrender!
:o

That's one hell of a Panzerball you are facing.
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Turn 9 - August 17, 1941

Rain again threatens the Axis in the north, but isn't over the battlefield this week.

Image

AGN settles for a siege at Tallinn and makes a small gain at the Narva river, but the Panzerball and forces west of Velikie Luki unleash a barrage of attacks. They reach the southern shores of Lake Ilmen and pivot to the north toward Leningrad.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

The Panzerball has helped put AGN back on historical schedule.
The question is whether, especially without Pskov, they can feed momentum of a force this large, in this concentration.

Image

The frontal attacks result in high losses of the Soviets.

Image

Destroyed units thus far:

Image

Air losses are high this week for both sides.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

AGC is silent, but AGS attempts a few Dnepr crossings while making the main effort toward the Dnepr Bend.

Image

A Soviet counter attack against German mech spearheads fails, with heavy armor losses for the Red Army.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

At Smolensk AGC is digging in behind the Dnepr. Central Front holds a thin screen as everything possible is on rails heading north to counter the German over commitment.

Image

Mogilev to Chernigov is practically a ghost town, and STAVKA has stripped the area accordingly.

Image

Dnepr defenses in northern Ukraine.
Very thin here, spread to offer troops up north, and secure with the German mech forces farther southeast.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Observed relative formation strength at The Bend.

Image

The Axis are poised to cross the Dnepr and enter Crimea.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Overall map at the beginning of turn 9:

Image

In the north reinforcements join in echelon behind the current lines.
Under Bryansk Front the best available units are railing north to backstop the battered forces of Northwestern and Leningrad Front.
In the south the Dnepr coverage is almost complete, as the Axis arrive in strength along its entire breadth.

Overall map at the end of turn 9:

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
Stamb
Posts: 2560
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Stamb »

always wanted to see what gonna happen in pvp game when Axis concentrate so many mobile forces on one axis
waiting for a next posts :)
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Turn 10 - August 24, 1941

The weather has not been kind to the Axis this summer, and the rain return to visit AGN.

Image

OoB for late August:

Image

The airborne and cavalry corps also report to STAVKA, and are used to help backstop combined arms armies, but I didn't include them here (~15k men reporting to each currently).

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Several Soviet generals have given their all:

Image

Ground losses:

Image

Even heavier Soviet and German air losses this week.
Detail on German losses by type:

Image

Destroyed units, Germans only manage to overrun two airbases this week:

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

AGN battles in the salient.
The siege at Tallinn continues without an attack.
Another nibble on the Narva river line.
The Panzerball continues hammering forward, with the German infantry trying to clear their northwestern flank.
A motorized corps diverts east, south of Lake Ilmen, but finds the going hard.
Most importantly, Pskov remains in Soviet hands, which should be stretching the German supply lines for all these mechanized units.

Image

Western Front successfully defends Velikie-Luki, while the German infantry make a broad push against the line in this sector while AGC remains quiet.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

South of the dead zone from Smolensk to Gomel the Axis make several successful attacks across the Dnepr, but lack the MP or desire to follow up with crossings and bridgeheads. Southwest Front will retake these hexes and force them to fight over this territory again before advancing.

Image

At The Bend the Germans concentrate most of their attacks and except for Dnepropetrovsk they clear everything west of the river.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

The battle for Velikie-Luki was not a light effort by the Germans. 8 on map units were committed to fight:

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

CV for AGN theater at the beginning of the turn as the Panzerball's momentum begins to sap.

Image

STAVKA orders the withdrawal of combat formations from Pskov to avoid encirclement.
Defenses are stiffened to keep the Germans from Novgorod, as well as stop movement north on their current axis.
We're hoping to invite him with weakness to fight back toward the west, perhaps entertaining the idea of an encirclement.
Bryansk Front forces arrive take up positions to contain any breakthroughs.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

Panzerball tracker.

These are the on map units verified in the Panzerball so far.
Units with a leading "?" were not identified on map this turn, likely off the front line trying to rest and recoup.
Units that are italicized suffered defeats (failed attacks) during the turn.

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

Re: Panzerball - a GC 41 case study

Post by Seminole »

We have the air war handled by the AI in this game.
I really enjoyed the air war model in War in the West, but in my first game against Q-ball as the Soviets it seemed like I could wreak a lot of early havoc with IL-2s on his mech formations.
I tend to think this part of the game might sim better being abstracted, where people can't min/max the game engine too hard.

At any rate, I laid out some ADs just to compare to what the AI did on my behalf.

Mine is the before:

Image

AI was actually pretty close in determining what mattered and what to do:

Image
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”