The Battle of Al Khor, 1995 -- new beta for testing

[Mgellis]

A new beta for testing...

Simple situation: in 1995, Qatar had a bloodless coup. What if the coup had turned into a civil war, with Qatar' small navy and air force divided against itself?

As always, please let me know what you think. Are there problems, errors, etc.? What can I do to make this a more interesting and challenging scenario?

Version 2 uploaded 7:40 PM CST July 28 2022

[HalfLifeExpert]

Only had time to take a quick look before work, but first impressions are that this could be a great small scale scenario.

Will report back when I'm able to have a proper playthrough

[Nikel]

SPOILERS. Do not read if you are going to play the scenario.


Thanks for your scenario Mgellis, some comments from a novice player

Tried it 2 times, as usual.

The blitzkrieg tactics ended in total failure, losing everything.


The second try, knowing the dangers, was cautious.

Launched the 2 prepared Mirages from AS, and then waited for the other 2 to take off. Then advanced to Qatar looking for air superiority, dogfight with rebel Mirages ended well, 2 losses for none of mine. And come back to the air base to avoid any loss leaving my ships alone .

At the same time, I had sent the Patrol Craft ships East and then South, far from the Qatari coast. Finally they found the rebel ship launching 2 Exocets, one was enough to sink the enemy boat.

Apparently the enemy planes cannot harm your ships, so the risk is in the coast.


Now some questions if you allow me

Why a coup in Qatar in 1995? Did it happen something that year for a what if?

The scenario is a Air vs Air and Ship vs Ship, if you avoid the rebel land batteries that you cannot attack?


I have found a reference just in case you want to change something, sent via pm.



Score: triumph 120.

SIDE: Qatar
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
15x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
2x MM.40 Exocet Blk I
7x R.550 Magic 1
4x Super R.530F

WEAPONS/STORES LOST:
-----------------------------
24x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]



SIDE: Rebels
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x Mirage F.1EDA
1x Q 01 Damsah [La Combattante III]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
9x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
2x DAGAIE Mk2 LEM Chaff
11x R.550 Magic 1

WEAPONS/STORES LOST:
-----------------------------
120x 105mm Mle F2 APFSDS-T
80x 105mm Mle F2 HE
6x 1200 liter Drop Tank
60x 20mm Single Burst [20 rnds]
11x 30mm DEFA 553 x 2 Burst [50 rnds]
100x 30mm/75 Twin Oerlikon APDS Burst [20 rnds]
364x 30mm/75 Twin Oerlikon HE Burst [20 rnds]
193x 40mm/70 Twin Breda Compact Burst [32 rnds]
80x 7.62mm MG Burst [20 rnds]
130x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
78x DAGAIE Mk2 LEM Chaff
20x DAGAIE Mk2 LIR Flare
8x MM.40 Exocet Blk I
5x R.550 Magic 1
36x SNEB 68mm Rocket



SIDE: Neutrals
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------

WEAPONS/STORES LOST:
-----------------------------



SIDE: Saudi Arabia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------

WEAPONS/STORES LOST:
-----------------------

[Coiler12]

I had the exact opposite experience: My planes launched piecemeal, got crushed, and even though I sunk the enemy Combattante, my two ships also became navigation hazards for future oil tankers. Was wiped out. Still a lot of fun.

Thoughts:
-The enemy Mirages with anti-surface weapons currently start off flying high and awkwardly circling downwards until they see the ships.
-It was very easy to tell that the rebel missile boat was a hostile ship because it was traveling at 30 knots and emitting a military radar. Don't know if that was intentional or not.

[HalfLifeExpert]

I've played this a couple times.

In my first playthrough, I successfully sank the rebel Corvette before it got a shot off thanks to the Saudi E-3.

Got massacred in the air though. I still think there's something wrong with AAMs right now in the current beta(s).

They seem to immediately burn up all fuel and glide/coast to their targets, losing airspeed at a very high rate, making it absurdly easy for the enemy to avoid in BVR engagements: Just do a 180 and hit afterburner to outrun any missile.

[Mgellis]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Nikel, yes, there was a coup in Qatar in 1995. It was bloodless in actual history, but one of my go-to techniques for brainstorming new scenarios is to find something in history and ask, "What if things turned into a civil war...and/or a major power tried to influence the outcome the way America did in Vietnam, etc.?" I just took the Qatari air force and navy for that time, split in roughly in two, and asked, "If you're outnumbered in the air, but have superior sea forces, how do you win?"

Coiler...it's just the way Command set it up. I think part of the issue is that the only planes Qatar and the rebels have are the Mirages, they aren't really patrol aircraft, but they're looking for those two ships. (I'm also assuming the rebels are mostly less experienced pilots, etc. and I set them at Cadet level.)

HalfLifeExpert...I honestly don't know if there is an error with the missiles or not. It's possible the French missiles are just...well...terrible.

Any other suggestions, etc.? Is there anything I should change, modify, correct, etc.? What can I do to make the scenario more fun and more challenging before I submit it to the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks!

[Nikel]

Nikel, yes, there was a coup in Qatar in 1995. It was bloodless in actual history, but one of my go-to techniques for brainstorming new scenarios is to find something in history and ask, "What if things turned into a civil war...and/or a major power tried to influence the outcome the way America did in Vietnam, etc.?" I just took the Qatari air force and navy for that time, split in roughly in two, and asked, "If you're outnumbered in the air, but have superior sea forces, how do you win?"

Any other suggestions, etc.? Is there anything I should change, modify, correct, etc.? What can I do to make the scenario more fun and more challenging before I submit it to the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks, of course there is an article in the wikipedia I missed. Perhaps adding more context in the scenario description?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Qata ... 7%C3%A9tat

I think part of the issue is that the only planes Qatar and the rebels have are the Mirages, they aren't really patrol aircraft, but they're looking for those two ships. (I'm also assuming the rebels are mostly less experienced pilots, etc. and I set them at Cadet level.)

Did you check the pm I sent you?

[HalfLifeExpert]

HalfLifeExpert...I honestly don't know if there is an error with the missiles or not. It's possible the French missiles are just...well...terrible.

I just looked again and there is very much an issue. The DB entry for the Magic missiles says the rocket booster has a burn time of 14 seconds. When the missile is fired however, the fuel lasts far less than that, no more than 2 seconds.

[Mgellis]

Thanks for the Military Balance stuff. I'll look it over and see what changes, if any, I want to make.

Different sources report slightly different things. Of course, information on what happened in Qatar 25 years ago is a bit sketchy in places. I wonder if what happened was that the coup took place in 1995 and then the new government went on a shopping spree. Anyway, I'll take a look.

Thanks.

Nikel, yes, there was a coup in Qatar in 1995. It was bloodless in actual history, but one of my go-to techniques for brainstorming new scenarios is to find something in history and ask, "What if things turned into a civil war...and/or a major power tried to influence the outcome the way America did in Vietnam, etc.?" I just took the Qatari air force and navy for that time, split in roughly in two, and asked, "If you're outnumbered in the air, but have superior sea forces, how do you win?"

Any other suggestions, etc.? Is there anything I should change, modify, correct, etc.? What can I do to make the scenario more fun and more challenging before I submit it to the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks, of course there is an article in the wikipedia I missed. Perhaps adding more context in the scenario description?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Qata ... 7%C3%A9tat

I think part of the issue is that the only planes Qatar and the rebels have are the Mirages, they aren't really patrol aircraft, but they're looking for those two ships. (I'm also assuming the rebels are mostly less experienced pilots, etc. and I set them at Cadet level.)

Did you check the pm I sent you?

[Mgellis]

Just posted version 2. Please let me know what you think.

Any other changes, etc. needed or is it ready to be submitted to the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks.

[thewood1]

Be careful of The Military Balance stuff. There's a lot of Russian pirated copies out there. My work reference library maintains copies if you ever need any kind of look up.

[Mgellis]

Thanks. What I actually did was look for information that is both in the Command database AND in Military Balance. The end result was that I changed the aircraft a bit...

It's now 3 Mirage F-1s (Qatar) vs. 2 Mirage F1s + 4 Alpha Jets + 3 Sea Kings (which may or may not have Exocets) (rebels)...I'm guessing the air war will be easier for Qatar to win, since most of the rebel aircraft will not have air-to-air missiles, but there are now one or two more rebel aircraft that can hurt the missile boats.

Be careful of The Military Balance stuff. There's a lot of Russian pirated copies out there. My work reference library maintains copies if you ever need any kind of look up.

[thewood1]

An open source that isn't quite as detailed, but does a good job is World Air Forces by Flight Global.

https://www.flightglobal.com/reports/wo ... 95.article

[Mgellis]

Oh, yes, I've used the Flight Global stuff. It's quite useful.

An open source that isn't quite as detailed, but does a good job is World Air Forces by Flight Global.

https://www.flightglobal.com/reports/wo ... 95.article

[Mgellis]

So, any comments about version 2? Or is it ready to be submitted to the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks in advance.

[Mgellis]

Final version has been posted to the Community Scenario Pack.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and suggestions.