Under African Skies - Event / Hostility Question

[Bashkire]

Possible spoilers below for "Under African Skies"

'Ello chaps,

Firstly: Where should this sort of thread be posted? I've stuck it here as a general topic, but would this be better off in "The War Room" or in the "Mods and Scenarios" forums?

The meat of the question: I've been looking for a new scenario to play and it happily coincided with the vote for best community scenario - it's like the stars aligned - and through this I've found Under African Skies.
The side briefing says that the Chinese have got commitments in the area and that they are neutral to the US / UK coalition, and that the French are conducting their own operation in the area. They have just weathered (with 3 vessels remaining thus far) a sustained attack from shore based SSM batteries and a committed attack from a Chinese SAG in the area. When the first attacks against the French occurred, the Chinese switched from Neutral to Unfriendly. After receiving a message saying that I had to conduct rescue operations for the French sailors, I noticed that the Chinese had switched to hostile. I have done nothing to the Chinese myself. A quick look in the editor (nothing in depth, I grant you) doesn't show me any events for switching sides.

My brief says that I should avoid contact with the Chinese. Is this something that the designer has added to force contact with a peer threat, or is this a slight bug? Should I go to the editor and change their hostility to me to Unfriendly again to reset this? Has anyone got any insight into this scenario around this point?

Cheers all,
- Bashkire

[Micaz91]

the change in the alignment of the factions should not be present in the special messages, it always ruins the phatos. the fact that the Chinese are going to shoot you is information you shouldn't have, you should act like you don't know. but he told you that they are unfrendly so at least you know to be cautious.

[Bashkire]

Fair enough. I just thought that it was odd that they suddenly switched when there was nothing overt that I'd done that had caused it. Still, I suppose that the French are in league with the coalition by simple virtue of being allied with me in the first place.

At least I now have an excuse to take out those jammers...

[Micaz91]

remember, the first shot is Chinese

[maverick3320]

Interesting, as I just started playing this scenario as well for the same reason - it shows up a lot on the favorites list.

In my playthrough, the French SAG was completely wrecked by the Chinese, and perhaps rightly so, since the french helos indiscriminately started shooting at Chinese ships near the oil platforms. If only the French ships had as many reverse gears as their tanks....(bad joke)

Even after the Chinese ships attacked the French they were not hostile with me. However, after sending in the Ospreys on a mandated rescue mission for all the French sailors in the water, the Chinese SAG, which had been creeping into the same area, simply starting shooting SAMs at the Ospreys. No warning, no pop up message, they just went hostile.

[Pygmalion]

Chalk me up as another for the "giving it a whirl due to the favorites list club."

I think the Chinese are technically hostile against you from the moment they start firing against the French. What determines their being marked as such is whether the French (or you) actually confirm that the missiles, etc. are being directly fired by the Chinese. Usually this happens fairly early on, but it's technically possible for them to fire their missiles in such a way that there's a degree of implausible deniability -- not enough to confuse a real human being, but enough that the AI doesn't auto-class the side as hostile.

It doesn't particularly matter since the briefing instructs you to treat actions against the French as not indicative of general posture. My lore-friendly method of confirming Chinese intentions is to send a Fire Scout over towards the fleet action, ostensibly to see what's going on, check on the French, etc. The Chinese will shoot at it, sometimes even hit it, but that's my green light. Although you technically lose the same amount of VPs losing a drone as you do a manned aircraft, it's probably far more acceptable to return home saying "the Chinese shot down a UAV" than "the Chinese killed our helicopter crew". The latter is far more likely to escalate the conflict, which is something else the briefing encourages us not to do.

As an aside, this is part of the reason I love it when scenario designers put effort into background. After all, war is politics by other means, and I always find it much more interesting to develop a plan in a politically charged environment than your average run-of-the-mill "the Soviets are over there go kill them" scenario.

[maverick3320]

Chalk me up as another for the "giving it a whirl due to the favorites list club."

I think the Chinese are technically hostile against you from the moment they start firing against the French. What determines their being marked as such is whether the French (or you) actually confirm that the missiles, etc. are being directly fired by the Chinese. Usually this happens fairly early on, but it's technically possible for them to fire their missiles in such a way that there's a degree of implausible deniability -- not enough to confuse a real human being, but enough that the AI doesn't auto-class the side as hostile.

It doesn't particularly matter since the briefing instructs you to treat actions against the French as not indicative of general posture. My lore-friendly method of confirming Chinese intentions is to send a Fire Scout over towards the fleet action, ostensibly to see what's going on, check on the French, etc. The Chinese will shoot at it, sometimes even hit it, but that's my green light. Although you technically lose the same amount of VPs losing a drone as you do a manned aircraft, it's probably far more acceptable to return home saying "the Chinese shot down a UAV" than "the Chinese killed our helicopter crew". The latter is far more likely to escalate the conflict, which is something else the briefing encourages us not to do.

As an aside, this is part of the reason I love it when scenario designers put effort into background. After all, war is politics by other means, and I always find it much more interesting to develop a plan in a politically charged environment than your average run-of-the-mill "the Soviets are over there go kill them" scenario.

Very good points. I did notice that missiles fired by the Chinese SAG were red/hostile the entire time, just not the Chinese ships themselves.

I'm assuming background is what makes Feltan's scenarios (Goodnight Irene, Havana Daydreamin, Under African Skies) so popular. (I believe those are all his, but I could be mistaken). I can definitely say that background is what makes Gunner98s's Fury scenarios so engaging.