CSA Trade Bye bye?

[battlevonwar]

It's Jan 1862... I have been rather slow in my hatched plans in a certain game(of which I'll disclose in a few turns after my objectives are complete and if that player reads here he can attempt to rail around a bunch of units to save his butt)

Step 1:

Ft Pulaski is closed the minute 2 gunboats can sail down the Coast Jan 1862(that's the end of trade of Savannah) by event

Step 2: Jacksonville has 3 Frigates blockading it, that's the end of trade in a few more turns(would of been earlier but I wanted to go after some other objectives like killing the CSA Navy)

Step 3: First Ironclad sails up the mouth of the Mississippi the same turn Jan 1862 and blockades New Orleans trade permanently for the rest of the game or CSA Ironclads respond which I doubt he will have at this point but I have several more heading there to ensure that if he wants to trade MPPs that's in my favor.

Step 4: I have strategic options which port will fall in Winter of 1861-1862... This will likely close a 4th port or I can remove an Ironclad from being built cause the event doesn't fire if Norfolk Shipyards aren't defended and there are plenty of Ports I know my opponent just can't defend. I think Mobile is the toughest cookie on the map but Galveston, Charleston, New Orleans, Wilmington are all very easy targets so which would you choose?

I think after I take 1 port I will recycle and repeat...

Ultimate Goal, reduce CSA Production to 850 by July 1862, whilst my production will be around 1350-1500 MPPs... I think I will forgo Industrial and Production Techs to heavily invest in my Navy cause reducing him by nearly 35% MPPs at this point in the war is gamebreaking.

Now he can GO all-in on the Port Protection but if he does = his early demise cause I'm fully teching up Corps/Leadership/Inf Techs/Divisions and Corps are spewing out at a rate he can't match already. With my leadership going to be on par by Late '62 I suspect the game will end in 1863 at latest with a CSA Surrender or mine as well... Or he can slowly die? Which option would you choose?

What counterplay would you do if you were the CSA?

[battlevonwar]

Step 5:

Wilmington fell to 1 Marine with land Tech 1, I put 2 Marines in there to rest up for target 2(the Devs should know Wilmington is INDEFENSIBLE to 1 Marine with 1 Land Tech and likely Zero Land Tech and you would have to post A LOT of divisions here to blockade the many hexagons that lead into the port since Marines move very well after landing... I have Corps, I have Ironclads I have actually built all my River Ironclads in case he wants to defend New Orleans now I'm off to do some evil deeds elsewhere.

Galveston + Charleston + + Mobile and Galveston*think I'm feeling that 5 strength garrison over there and those many open Hexagons indefensible also, and boy get any defense there, even if the event fires for reinforcements I don't care! If they don't got corps, they don't got anything but a port with 5 ways to hit it...... This is itching me... I want all of them NOW NOW NOW and well, I may have to forgo these objectives he if chooses to defend but I don't think he can defend them and face my Army in Early 1862. . .

He has to choose? Lose Tennessee Virginia in the next 12 months of combat to my superior army or lose his ports...

[battlevonwar]

I feel dirty, I will go take a shower and show more results as they come. I figure the only way to show the Community the imbalance is to show em how ezzzz this really is...

So far for Zero Losses practically and I'm still raiding a butt-ton I get to close the southern economy in the first year of the game. That or he can face my Formidable Force in Virginia that GROWS Massive by the day! (Lets build every Artillery we can now also) I am feeling Richmond Bound? Anyone up for some Tea? Lee prepare to lose your Rifles and boots a year earlier than you did!

[battlevonwar]

To give an idea of the effectiveness of my tactics, this is the CSA Trade at this point. Now my navy is really starting to Amp up and if I don't take any of the remaining 3 Ports of the Confederacy and instead I decide to rely on my overwhelming superiority in numbers I can raid a good deal of the remaining trade and cut Galveston too without even invading(you just hammer the port with 3 frigates bye bye Galveston). Leaving 2 Ports and probably zero to no income from the remaining 2 but that I don't intend to do likely. I am prepping for something big. Maybe...

CSA Trade Projected to be at 100-150 Max by late Summer of '62, let's see if we can achieve this together against a seasoned veteran CSA Player? or better yet how about under 50 MPPs from Trade? Lets get there together and all that in less than a year of Gameplay? I think maybe he could defend these ports, maybe... If he posts 3 Divisions in NOLA, 3 Divisions in Mobile, 3 Divisions IN Galveston, 3 divisions in Wilmington and 3 Divisions in Charleston. This might be an overestimation but that is what is required. 12 Divisions! or 3 brigades with that or 8 brigades entrenched and 7 divisions. Maybe a Corp to go with that?

We all know he doesn't have that! In his entire Army he doesn't have that many men...maybe throw in some brigades to make that 8 divisions and 7 Brigades plus probably an HQ and 1 Cav or 2 Cav... We all know he cannot simply do this right now. Not as thin as he's stretched in Missouri, New Mexico, Virginia and Tennessee and now I mobilize The Army of the Potomac !

[battlevonwar]

Wilmington easy... It has that Fort what a pity for him. You really can't defend this target without "a few units."

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I hear you. A patch is in the works.

- BNC

[battlevonwar]

Hehehe, I have been on the end of this strategy. (0 Trade by 1862 end)

I hear you. A patch is in the works.

- BNC

[battlevonwar]

Opponent is being a bit spunky:

he strikes out at Fort Monroe, nearly losing a Corp at Strength 2 and at Wilmington with a Corp as well. This tells me he has relocated units spending lots of MPPs to save coastal cities or secure his flank. My precise goal in this game! Since the CSA has such a large coastline she is never going to be able defend it. I move in on Northern Virginia in relative safety.

After close all but 1 Port(unless he can retake Wilmington) On the Atlantic Seaboard...

He loses a River Ironclad to my River Ironclad and more on the way to keep New Orleans permanently closed unless he buys more river Ironclads(gotta make sea investment cheap enough for the CSA to keep on par not like sea power changed drastically in technology toward the North during the Civil War in fact one might say it made the South Innovative)

I can close Galveston I figure and the CSA Navy will be a slight pain... I won't push my offensives too deep but I am making moves on Nashville and Richmond now. He will protect his Coast or Cities. He can't defend both! Either way he will lose what the Cotton Event gave him. European Readiness tanked! All his investment there is useless. Stalemate at sea as well.

CSA Imports should be around 150-160ish unless Wilmington goes back into his hands which it should as much as he's spending to retake it. I like this... I will close Galveston and my Raiders are being upgraded soon to fix the rest of the Seas. It may take a little longer than expected as Richmond is too sweet a target.

Opponent is quite good to react fast!

[Beriand]

Yeah, 1 marine often taking fort is bit too much. If 2 were always required regardless of rolls, would be more reasonable.

If you take Galveston, Texas volunteers are mobilised, probably not worth it in 1862. 20 convoy MPPs anyway. Ignore it or use 2 gunboats? Landing possible at the ending stages, to hit FS.

If he posts 3 Divisions in NOLA, 3 Divisions in Mobile, 3 Divisions IN Galveston, 3 divisions in Wilmington and 3 Divisions in Charleston. This might be an overestimation

Yes, this is overestimation Obviously this is not required, in 1862 at least.

he strikes at Wilmington with a Corp as well. This tells me he has relocated units spending lots of MPPs to save coastal cities or secure his flank. My precise goal in this game!

And how easy was his retaking of Wilmington, could you tell?
In general I think taking this back is a right decision, but supply for CSA is atrocious. Say, in Mobile/Wilmington and also some others. I guess it is to prevent rapid expansion of beachhead by the Union, thus other supply towns are quite far away - but this also make retaking ports quite challenging? Of course, like, HQ and 2 corps do it no problem, but this would be huge railing and empty-front cost. Or maybe 1 lone corps beats 1 garrison of marines? Though I would be surprised.

I hear you. A patch is in the works.

Would be good But also note that if CSA trade MPPs are much more secure (I do not know the planned scale), Union FS pool and/or generation (those civilian stuff?) might need slight increase? It gets bad if there is big slow grind into 1864.

[battlevonwar]

1 Marine took Wilmington it went around the Division there and locked it in. He railed in an HQ, Cav, Corp to counter it. I mean that is probably 150 MPPs there. I have put a few brigades and a Division there to force him to halt up.(probably an error as I should give it back for free as it cost me nothing but 2 Amphibious Transports to take) the point is though if you look at the graph I took out over 50% of CSA Trade by April of 1862 and I really could of done that a little better, I was 2 or 3 turns late on Jacksonville chasing those little CSA Gunboats(the CSA Should get gunboats on Major Trade Ports they protect them for a tiny while). I think it's a little early to take down that much trade. I also have 3 Frigates I can repair and send to literally strangle Mobile trade and New Orleans will never open again ... I also have all my Marines practically unscathed. My error wasn't bringing down a Cav to destroy the rails around Wilmington(which I shall not do again)

Kentucky and Virginia are pretty empty now as we both know how much Corp Research the Union and CSA can do and build at this point. All of them, so I know that he's short 3 Corps there.

Galveston isn't likely worth it, you're right. I got a lot of gunboats and Naval Tech so I may look back after some losses and just Raid a good deal of his Convoys. I have 4 Marines ready to retake any Port he neglects and the ones I've glanced at all have a few Divisions on them. What can defend from 4 Marines with Inf Tech 1? They better have at least 2 Divisions around and 1 Brigade in? You can often go around the Brigade or Division which makes the way Forts are really bad for the game.

I don't think my opponent is feeling very well about things. . . His strategy was built around a little trade for a little while, when is the healthy point for it to be cut? 4 Marines in April 1862 with Inf Tech 1 and 6 Frigates, 2 Ironclads, and 3 Riverclads make things really tough for the CSA to fight with the Naval Techs near impossible? So he will need a sizeable army for The Gulf Coast... And should you be able to cut a Port off with just 3 frigates? Why is this a thing... It makes no sense to me that you can do that, every single turn.

Yeah, 1 marine often taking fort is bit too much. If 2 were always required regardless of rolls, would be more reasonable.

If you take Galveston, Texas volunteers are mobilised, probably not worth it in 1862. 20 convoy MPPs anyway. Ignore it or use 2 gunboats? Landing possible at the ending stages, to hit FS.

If he posts 3 Divisions in NOLA, 3 Divisions in Mobile, 3 Divisions IN Galveston, 3 divisions in Wilmington and 3 Divisions in Charleston. This might be an overestimation

Yes, this is overestimation Obviously this is not required, in 1862 at least.

he strikes at Wilmington with a Corp as well. This tells me he has relocated units spending lots of MPPs to save coastal cities or secure his flank. My precise goal in this game!

And how easy was his retaking of Wilmington, could you tell?
In general I think taking this back is a right decision, but supply for CSA is atrocious. Say, in Mobile/Wilmington and also some others. I guess it is to prevent rapid expansion of beachhead by the Union, thus other supply towns are quite far away - but this also make retaking ports quite challenging? Of course, like, HQ and 2 corps do it no problem, but this would be huge railing and empty-front cost. Or maybe 1 lone corps beats 1 garrison of marines? Though I would be surprised.

I hear you. A patch is in the works.

Would be good But also note that if CSA trade MPPs are much more secure (I do not know the planned scale), Union FS pool and/or generation (those civilian stuff?) might need slight increase? It gets bad if there is big slow grind into 1864.

[battlevonwar]

Trade slumps below 150 probably 140 for the CSA now. My goal is creeping closer and now ships can be freed up cause New Orleans is taken.

4 Marines Hit New Orleans(1st Marine strike missed had to have 2 Marine strikes to take the City which is rare) and catch the Confederates without protecting both entrenchment boxes. Unfortunately I've made this error also(it's quite sweet to have units that can land and go around and take that fortification at NOLA without a fight if you don't cover every avenue in, doubt you could? I'm sure with the Fort on the City there is some way in!!!)... Blew up 2 Forts and hoping he has nothing around to stop this which I doubt he does since he's so invested elsewhere.

Also trade is further cut and I withstand and hold Wilmington Port yet again...(I have intentions of keeping this port as long as possible, and with Europeans becoming more disinterested I shall gain much either way)

[battlevonwar]

I don't figure my opponent guessed I could relocate 4 Marines here in 3 Turns to do this...

[battlevonwar]

My opponent cannot retake New Orleans and is struggling with Wilmington(he has a Corp and Cav vs a Brigade and I retreated everything else so he should get this back and that may help him some) so in for the first time in the War we're approaching under 100 MPPs of trade within a year of the War Start.

My Boats are not organized either and neither are my Marines which now are Prime for target Number 3. . . All 4

(My Goal Target isn't reached but I'm pretty close inside of a year)

The issue is going to be fighting Corps and Divisions but what we don't fight on the Coast we fight elsewhere. Kentucky is all Union and now Tennessee is being assaulted(cutting Nashville) and more trade!

[battlevonwar]

Trade practically Cut off completely with or without taking Cities Good job team we accomplished our goal and to think I'm really not that comfortable with the use of sea power. Imagine someone who is?


Okay very early, within a about a year of the game start I've closed all CSA Trade(it really took much less time to make it suffer so yeah this aspect of the game well, is simply a tough spot for a CSA Player). I think a trickle escapes me here or there but now I have 7 new Ships coming on line in a few turns that will never happen. Even if I had not taken New Orleans and my Opponent would of put 2 Divisions into New Orleans it wouldn't matter, as I closed the port. Wilmington I suppose could of been defended with 3 Brigades along the coast and and a 4th in the city? Or just 3? Correct me if I am wrong?

This probably would of given him a little bit of trade...

Though now since it's Summer of 1862 and I have more troops than he does an a lot more income...It's just a case of waiting for All the Corps I built to come on line and Inf 2 tech is in them so they'll go marching South. This time I will focus on taking out key cities and I don't think the CSA can do anything with 850 MPPs per turn vs my 1350+ and that will get worse as I get more objectives.

Nashville has Grant Adjacent and 4 Marines swarm around the Gulf Coast looking for their next location to hit and run if they choose. There is nowhere for my opponent to hide I figure the game has 1 year till death for the CSA or he can choose to drag it out and die slowly and painfully.

[redrum68]

Yep this is pretty much the standard game play. Even the 1862 scenario more or less leads to the same result. The MPP income gap is just too large once the CSA convoys are shutdown and the Union income ramps up.

[darth254]

how much was your opponent building monitors? wouldn't necessarily address the marine/amphibious balance issues or the the fact that the convoys heading to Elizabeth City, Savannah, and New Orleans are super easy to shut down, but does help see how comprehensively the Union can choke off the Confederacy even with naval resistance.

[battlevonwar]

He has 2 Ironclads, he had a River Ironclad but I destroyed it easily. The Timberclads are pretty useless vs River Ironclads. He could build more Ironclads and tech into it I think but I have had a gunboat upgraded survive a hit from one. It is tough for the CSA to tech with the Union this way and or build enough ships. I imagine someone could come up with a CSA Navy Build but that would leave her very weak elsewhere.

The issue also is I have bought extra ships, Frigates, Ship of the Line, Ironclads and I have complete Naval Dominance. Now we're even for 1862 on Land but I have a ton of Corps coming and soon I'll max out and go on the offensive. He has done extremely well on such a lean diet of MPPs, but I know when my leadership comes(already nearly max Leadership Tech) and I get my free quality leaders soon I will go aggressive on him.

More over with the Objective Cities where they are at. I have 1 I need to win. . . The others are not so far out of my grasp. I don't think the South can hold the objective cities for a Minor Victory cause they're coastal(and I've got 5 Marines now) So a good 15% of the Southern Armies on are on 4 Ports to just stop me from Rushing them. But he won't stop all 5 marines and what I can amphibiously launch from the coast all the way down in 1 turn!

how much was your opponent building monitors? wouldn't necessarily address the marine/amphibious balance issues or the the fact that the convoys heading to Elizabeth City, Savannah, and New Orleans are super easy to shut down, but does help see how comprehensively the Union can choke off the Confederacy even with naval resistance.

[Duedman]

What really bugs me is the unnecessary movement after landings.
In SC WiE you could move exactly 1 hex + attack afterwards.
If you attacked right away, units turn was over. In SC ACW they are super mobile. Which is, combined with un-dissolvable super weak forts, frankly stupid.

As for blocking New Orleans, Jacksonville, Galveston.... I already play with house rules. And that stuff is not allowed. Game design has the blockade runner hexes for that. Simply shutting traderoutes down by parking 2 ships next to the harbor is not working as intended.

[redrum68]

The issue also is I have bought extra ships, Frigates, Ship of the Line, Ironclads and I have complete Naval Dominance. Now we're even for 1862 on Land but I have a ton of Corps coming and soon I'll max out and go on the offensive. He has done extremely well on such a lean diet of MPPs, but I know when my leadership comes(already nearly max Leadership Tech) and I get my free quality leaders soon I will go aggressive on him.

From my experience, Frigates and SotL aren't worth buying. Coastal dominance is all about monitors and ironclads with gunboats to then raid any open convoy routes. Maybe I'm missing something?

[Platoonist]

From my experience, Frigates and SotL aren't worth buying. Coastal dominance is all about monitors and ironclads with gunboats to then raid any open convoy routes. Maybe I'm missing something?

Ships of the Line have a nice fort bombardment value, but no, certainly not a priority.

Most likely, battelvonwar has maxed out on the number of land units and research he can purchase at the moment and is merrily spending the surplus on every manner of ship.