Luka MS

[Beriand]

I see no problem with gunboats damaging brigades and HQs on the coasts, especially if gunboats are upgraded. Damage You listed is really not impressive. It is not like Union does not pay anything for this, and it is not like brigades and HQs can hold terrain well. Gunboats executing corps units, and divisions to the less extent, is the main thing that bothers me

You can try blocking access to the marked levee hex near New Orleans, Union has to put a ship there to flood the city. Probably it cannot be blocked against 10 upgraded Union gunboats + marines, but this is major investment. And come on, the point is to have some riverine warfare, not to block Missisipi entrance and laugh maniacally. Please do not make New Orleans any harder to take (already too hard with forts possible to dissolve), if anything decrease CSA losses from New Orleans being taken&occupied.

[PvtBenjamin]

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[Beriand]

I would say that his gunboats have eliminated the equivalent of 200,000 units by late '43, 258,000 died in the actual war.

Gunboats invite Confederates to party on deck and woo them to Union side, no one is killed, 200,000 people are safe

[LoneRunner]

So you think it makes sense that the fort south of Richmond is on a river so that gunboats can reduce an HQ in the only logical spot for an HQ and I guess the gunboats can eliminate the Division in Richmond. So gunboats eliminating the Division in the capital is ok?

I don't have any Navy left he has 40 Naval units at level 2 so how exactly should I block access to New Orleans?

Lastly the fact that New Orleans is indefensible for some small FS penalty is asinine.

I would say that his gunboats have eliminated the equivalent of 200,000 units by late '43, 258,000 died in the actual war.

Next time you work on a beta for a game think a little more

PvtBenjamin, I am concerned about the tone of some of your posts. You have good ideas and your comments regarding gunboats are legitimate. However, insulting people who are attempting to work with you is not acceptable. Everyone should be treated with respect even if you disagree with their comments.

[PvtBenjamin]

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[Patrat]

Next time you work on a beta for a game think a little more

As someone who spent hours and hours playing and analyzing the game during beta testing, plus taking the time to write up coherent and concise reports to the Devs, I find this remark and others you have made, to be rather insulting. Especially since I and others who beta tested the game, did report to the devs their thoughts on gunboats being somewhat overpowered.

You got to be patient and let the devs weigh all the aspects of toning down the gunboats, and stop acting like a petulant child.

[PvtBenjamin]

With all due respect the developer basically agreed on the gunboats being overpowered and I said thanks but your buddy felt necessary to add the condescending "you just don't know how to play comment" When you kick I kick back.

I find it funny about the beta testers voicing concern about gunboat strength because I think I was the first to raise it and when I did basically no one here agreed.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8&t=387234

[Beriand]

We pointed out gunboats attacking big land units during tests, but it was not changed then (not that many things were changed in the game, tbh, time after release is just another round of wider tests). It appears something will be decided and done now, yes, good. What devs will do in detail, I have no idea.

Above, again, I stated that to me it feels totally ok that gunboats are able to damage softer units on the coast. They could have some use, especially upgraded, like hitting brigades and de-entrenched divisions. I hope their attack values will not be decreased. Big issue here seems to be lack of difference between units, like brigade-division-corps, where especially gunboats executing corps feels quite awful.
Then, I said that starting from April 1861, one can take care of defenses around New Orleans in such a way that it requires major investment and really big unit concentration from Union to get the city. This do not apply to late 63' situation of 'I don't have any Navy left he has 40 Naval units at level 2 so how exactly should I block access to New Orleans?', which frankly should be obvious. Additionally, there is whole river system on the west, with interesting (and historical!) possibilities for amphibious operations and river movement - I said it sucks if in most of well-played games this is just 100% shut down at mouths of the rivers. It would be better to decrease New Orleans FS gain/loss values, convoy importance etc., instead of making it into fortress it never was, especially with this levee and geography in play. As I understand, New Orleans itself was taken without any resistance (after on-map forts), which of course can be changed during playing game, but maybe not to the other extreme.

I would also recommend to not see any different opinion or advice as 'condescending' attacks from evil testers, do not 'buddy' people around, see forum as some kicking place etc. Really not sure where one can find insults in my previous post. But yeah, I'm gonna leave it at this.

[PvtBenjamin]

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[Patrat]

I would also recommend to not see any different opinion or advice as 'condescending' attacks from evil testers, do not 'buddy' people around, see forum as some kicking place etc. Really not sure where one can find insults in my previous post. But yeah, I'm gonna leave it at this.

You change your tone and I'll change mine and if you think a group of you ganging up on me will intimidate me it won't.

I'm seeing a lot of back slapping here but not much in true constructive criticism to improve the game, a least I bring that to the table.

You obviously haven't been following the forums very closely if you think you're the only one who been offering constructive criticism on the game.

There have been plenty of posts , by myself and many others, who have offered constructive criticism of the game.

The difference between them and you is that they have offered it in a civil manner.

[PvtBenjamin]

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[BiteNibbleChomp]

@everyone, Just stop.

I really don't care if someone has posted one bit of feedback three months ago in the beta or if they have posted suggestions every day since we announced. I read every post that gets put up here. If I think an idea will improve the game, then I add it, doesn't matter who or where it came from.

It's really not a popularity contest or anything. Let's stop treating it like one.

- BNC

[Edmon]

Next time you work on a beta for a game think a little more

I don't care.

It was a proper response to his condescending response.

This is an unacceptable attitude on our forums.

Having read all the posts in this thread, while some could do with taking a small step back, your posts by far are the most hostile. You also, in my opinion, were the first to be hostile. You argue your points by attacking the intelligence of other forum members as a first step.

So, you have been given an official warning.

By all means, make your opinion known. But if your implying that a different opinion means the other person is either stupid or doesn't get it, then it becomes a problem.

Regards,
Edmon

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Who beta tested this thing?

Stands up and waves "I'm your huckleberry".

I signed an NDA but I believe I can give a general idea of how the Beta Test evolved from beginning to release.

1) We only had 2 months of testing.

2) 1 month into testing, we were informed that release was coming in another month.

3) We had to work through 3 versions of beta. e.g. v0.0, v0.1, v0.2

4) There were a lot of SP testers, and a smaller pool of MP testers. We generated a huge amount of data, bug reports (there were few), input and observations were noted in the Beta Forum.

5) As the newest versions came out, some of us back tracked current SP and MP tests to start again. Some of us (particularly MP testers in long campaigns continued with our matches.

6) A core group of us spent hundreds of hours, doing daily tests that could span 8+hours. There were tests that composed reiterations of a same turn to see different outcomes.

7) A lot of us had the understanding that Fury Software would make improvements post release, as they would need the wider communities input. This, as you well know, this gaming company does with all their titles.

Personal public message to you.

I have been a member of Matrix since circa 2011, when I bought Distant Worlds. In my bio it says I joined July 2020..but that is because I had to merge my Slitherine account with my Matrix account under a different name.
I'm making this point because I have read the forums for years. I noticed that a lot of your posts have been highly rude in the past.
For a great example, in the WiE Forum on AshFall's Research and Intelligence Guide (an excellent and accurate article and a huge amount of work at that) you were condescending and outright insulting to him.Turns out you were proven wrong with your objections to his analysis in his Guide. Funny thing...you redacted 'edited' some really egregious comments to him. AshFall on the other hand was a gentleman dealing with your venomous tirades. Anyone reading that thread now will still read some pettiness from you there...but the stuff you redacted should have got you at the very least timed out. Actually, it was pretty outrageous. I guess since it was in a rather obscure thread, it got missed or ignored.

Anyways, I beta tested this game. Took it on as a fun quasi-job since I just retired from demanding employment and love war gaming. Tested 2 months straight with other MP testers daily. Mirror matches and singlets. Hundreds of hours including writing notes and keeping massive records. Had multiple convos in the beta forum and through PMs on a continuous basis through out those two months, including crunch time before release.
I was one of the harshest critics with the early AI in the first version of SC-ACW. I moved on to MP testing since that's what I prefer. I have to say though that my opinions on improvements with the AI were heard and noted. Even got a thanks after I mentioned I might of been a bit strident with my opinions on the matter. What I didn't include in my initial negative assessments regarding the AI, were nasty little jibes to the devs or other testers who had other views or did not agree with me.

I have been reading this thread daily from the get go. Saw your escalating snide remarks, particularly the above quote...which was some kind of bait. Decided to hold off to see how the community would respond. Well, I wasn't surprised how this thread developed in 24 hours. Warning indeed.

[Duedman]

For a great example, in the WiE Forum on AshFall's Research and Intelligence Guide (an excellent and accurate article and a huge amount of work at that) you were condescending and outright insulting to him.Turns out you were proven wrong with your objections to his analysis in his Guide. Funny thing...you redacted 'edited' some really egregious comments to him. AshFall on the other hand was a gentleman dealing with your venomous tirades. Anyone reading that thread now will still read some pettiness from you there...but the stuff you redacted should have got you at the very least timed out. Actually, it was pretty outrageous. I guess since it was in a rather obscure thread, it got missed or ignored.

I also read that thread and PvtBenjamin seemed pretty hostile from the get go.
I thought the 2 of them might have some sort of history.

I don't want to jump any train here. The undeservedly small SC community does not need internal strife.
But I want to state my perception of the issue to make clear that the criticism does not just come from one admin and some biased beta testers.

Btw. I applied for Beta Test and did not even get a "no" for an answer. Small team. Things happen.
I also wholeheartedly disagree with the extend of the HQ chain mechanic. Or marines boarding landing craft from 0 supply jumping back to 10. Do these things annoy me? Hell yes! Still I wont vent my frustrations towards other forum members.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Private Benjamin is a legit player and poster. He shared his opinion about the our game. Yes, I'm the dirty Blue Belly Rat who nearly killed Stonewall Jackson with Gun Boats outside Richmond. 8 damage was quite fun. I also cut rails in Mississippi.

Was at well known breakfast sitdown restaurant. Coffee cold. Bacon delivered BEFORE eggs and hashbrowns. Was given no "setup". Told the waitress, she had a mental breakdown.

She says:

"what's a setup"? (wow)
"your bacon was ready, didn't know you wanted it same time as eggs/hash/toast"
"sorry, i just grabbed coffee pot, didn't think to check if cold and you wanted more refills".

I said, would it be easier for me to do myself and you'll still want 20%?

Manager comes out, "you're rude, and old fashioned generation with no respect".

This wasn't personal, it just end times service.

-Legend

[Edmon]

Private Benjamin is a legit player and poster. He shared his opinion about the our game. Yes, I'm the dirty Blue Belly Rat who nearly killed Stonewall Jackson with Gun Boats outside Richmond. 8 damage was quite fun. I also cut rails in Mississippi.

Was at well known breakfast sitdown restaurant. Coffee cold. Bacon delivered BEFORE eggs and hashbrowns. Was given no "setup". Told the waitress, she had a mental breakdown.

She says:

"what's a setup"? (wow)
"your bacon was ready, didn't know you wanted it same time as eggs/hash/toast"
"sorry, i just grabbed coffee pot, didn't think to check if cold and you wanted more refills".

I said, would it be easier for me to do myself and you'll still want 20%?

Manager comes out, "you're rude, and old fashioned generation with no respect".

This wasn't personal, it just end times service.

-Legend

Yes, he shared his opinion about the game. That is fine. What he also did was share his opinions about anyone who disagreed with his opinion.

How hard is it to be nice to people? Or at the very least just not talk about what other people are or are not at all?

Anyway, this thread has completely lost it's purpose now it's being further derailed by this completely off topic and not at all situationally similar breakfast analogy. Here is how to solve your breakfast problem: "Excuse me, I'm sorry to complain but my expectation is that all my food would be served at the same time. Can you reheat it for me?"

And then if your still unhappy, you just don't eat there again. Not hard. No need to "TELL" anyone such that they have a breakdown, undoubtedly with profanity the kind of which that'd upset a Marine. Let me tell you, most retail staff have heard it all and are considerably mentally tougher than most.

No-one cares if you are critical of the game or not.

Just don't break the rules and create hostility in the community by implying that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

Locked.