Nationale Morale (FS) and its impact on Unit Morale

[Pocus]

Hi guys,
What is your opinion on how impactful NM (FS) is on Unit Morale? Having tweaked the main campaign to present an 'interesting' what if situation, I find myself as the Union with 81% FS.

At this point, I would not say it feels like I'm already doomed, but close to this. The best example I can provide so far is Farragut's Marine sitting and resting nearby a 12-supply city for 5 turns (so receiving 11 supplies, full strength, no combat), which is culminating at 74% unit effectiveness and 62% unit morale.

My units in operational situations, without being engaged hovers around 50-55% effectiveness and same or close in morale.

Basically, what I'm saying and feeling, it seems to me National Morale is too impactful on Unit Morale, translating to terrible effectiveness very rapidly. To the point that I would say that starting with 90% or lower NM, it's done, you have lost. It will take some turns, (or perhaps many turns) to get to the point where you have officially lost, but from 90% or lower, it's all downhill and except in very specific situations, you can't fight for military superiority here. The enemy enters the clean-up / Mop-up phase and that's it.

So what is your opinion on NM? Is its influence just perfect on units, or do you feel it is too much (or not enough!)?

[Beriand]

Hello. Being below 90% FS changes nothing, so I guess you might be worrying too much. For ACW it was changed from cryptic 90/75/40 to 75/50/25. That is, first *0.95 drop is only at <75% FS; well, unless it is somehow bugged. Your marines might feel lonely from not being attached to HQ, it usually changes a lot? For readiness that is - I'm not really sure why the marines have so low morale, quite strange, hmm.

And anyway from I have tried to calculate, but maybe wrongly so, it appears that this *0.95 multiplier is similar in effect to losing one tech like leadership or infrantry tactics, so should not be immediately decisive, if industrial advantage of Union is in.

[Pocus]

Sorry I fail to understand what you say. There is a very strong correlation between FS level and unit morale, thus unit effectiveness.

[Beriand]

[Pocus]

In practice, this is not what happens. Again, units at full strength, not fighting, sitting in cities with 10 supplies suffer devastating unit morale (and thus effectiveness) values starting probably around 85-90% FS.

[Beriand]

Well, that would mean it is bugged, meaning that old 40/75/90/110 thresholds of FS changes are still in place. Might be the case, need to test values then.

[Beriand]

Ok, so please treat what I write with some caution, since I have no access to game code, just reverse engineering stuff from observational tests.

But yeah it appears you are kind of right. Not sure when, but this dependence FS-units morale was made linear/proportional. No thresholds, lol, neither old or new, manual is big lies Thus there is no point of FS when is starts to happen, any drop is significant and of similar impact.

I am quite certain that if your FS is 92%, then morale is multiplied by 0.92 at the end of the turn, simple as that is. And so on, 85% is *0.85, 97% is *0.97. What this means for unit morale depends on tech, supply and strength (so obviously *0.9 does not mean that morale tends to 0% in infinity number of turns, it is hold back by supply and strength - there is some equilibrium between them, and ofc much closer to 100 than 0). And what unit morale means for unit readiness depends also on HQ. So it is hard to make general statements there.

But anyway, unit sitting alone at 10 strength and 10 supply, at 100% FS appears to float around 100% morale; at 95% FS drops to 92 morale; at 91% FS drops to 87 morale; at 85% FS drops to 78% morale. Basically, very quick and significant. And what manual promises us will happen when you are at 50% FS... happens when you are at 90% FS! Quite inaccurate, I would say.

I am not sure what happens for FS values above 100%, numbers are strange, wild swings, must be some weird IFs shifting morale back and forth. And yes, it is relevant, not-cotton-selling CSA operates on FS well above 100% for some long times. But unit morale does increase, even at 101% FS already. At 110% increase is very significant, again definitely not what is stated in manual.

So

In practice, this is not what happens

appears to be quite correct description of manual formulas Wonder if it works like this in 1.03. Sad news, as it even more tells Union 'do not do anything before late 1863, because unnecessary losses will cripple your late effort', instead of 'You should do something before late 1863, just waiting for more MPPs will get you in trouble'; which is already problem of the campaign.
Maybe someone has more precise info on this matter? Will it be modified?

[Pocus]

Thanks for the testing done. I'm sure we will get some clarification at some point!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

...
So

In practice, this is not what happens

appears to be quite correct description of manual formulas Wonder if it works like this in 1.03. Sad news, as it even more tells Union 'do not do anything before late 1863, because unnecessary losses will cripple your late effort', instead of 'You should do something before late 1863, just waiting for more MPPs will get you in trouble'; which is already problem of the campaign.
Maybe someone has more precise info on this matter? Will it be modified?

I didn't write that part of the code, so I can't confirm for sure what is going on here (and personally I can't say I've ever really noticed a difference between say 99% and 91% FS).

What I can say for sure is that 1.03 won't be any different to 1.02 in this regard, this is the first that this issue(?) has been mentioned, and 1.03 is too far along the patch-making process for further changes to be made to it.

I'll look into it.

- BNC

[Beriand]

I didn't write that part of the code, so I can't confirm for sure what is going on here (and personally I can't say I've ever really noticed a difference between say 99% and 91% FS).

Yes, it is still around 5% readiness in most cases, I guess. Which would not affect most of the combat results, but some fraction yes. Not a huge deal, but if this puts you at disadvantage already at >90% FS, uh... what when it drops lower?

xDD
Well, morale increases. So I checked some things, and it appears to be very funny bugged. So 100->76% FS drop decreased morale by >35% and readiness by almost 20%. This has big impact. Then I put FS at 73% and... well... morale increased, by >30%, close to initial values, as if they were multiplied just by *0.95. And units were much better off. So now this can be only wild speculation, but maybe 100-76% range multiplies your morale by FS/100, which is really terrible when you close to 76, but then it flips to what manual says and is okay. Wat. Wut. Okay. Maybe. Empire strikes back

So, Pocus, solution is simple You just need to lose some more FS, and marines are in good shape again, logical.

[Pocus]

If you take the scenario Lee rides north in hot seat, you have the Confederates at 80 FS, so they should not get any penalty.

Turn 1, Montgomery, CSA unit with 10 supply, readiness 75, morale 100. Turn 2: readiness 70 morale 90.

Rather weird don't you think?

[Beriand]

If you take the scenario Lee rides north in hot seat, you have the Confederates at 80 FS, so they should not get any penalty.

Turn 1, Montgomery, CSA unit with 10 supply, readiness 75, morale 100. Turn 2: readiness 70 morale 90.

Rather weird don't you think?

Yes, 76-100 range is definitely wrong. It was multiplied by some penalty, then infantry tactics tech got in (it is ignored in turn 1), and you get your new lower morale.

If you want, you can check that in 1863 if you impose tax&rangers (say YES to all three decisions), then Turn 2 FS is slightly above 75% (>90k), and morale of Montgomery brigade is 85, as it is going down due to penalty. Remove CSA unit from Vicksburg in turn 2, and put Union unit there. Then Turn 3 CSA FS is below 75% (<90k), and morale of our unit increases to 95, as version from the manual kick in And will continue to rise, 110 morale at Turn 4. Magic.

[Duedman]

Now that would explain stuff. I usually do not pay too much attention to morale and readiness. I try to keep units attached to HQs and in reasonable supply. For the rest I trust the game. Or I used to.

But in my 2 MP matches as CSA my units got pummeled at some point. Corps moving in on my Corps with Entrenchment 1 + HQ + Woodtile + River and still doing a 5:1.

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks for the reports, we are looking into it