What the Heck has happened to this forum???

[Alby]

This forum used to be a place where people from all over the world could come together, discuss a great game, post actual data, newbies could get the help and support they needed, and we could laugh and poke fun at each other.
Now we have posts being deleted left and right, the people who are deleting the posts seem to post just as insulting and inflamatory remarks as the ones that were deleted.
From the outside looking in, not posting alot these days, but just reading, It seems a select few now seem to run the show, kept every change secret, but criticize those who call for OOB accuracy.
The oob issue is so simple its pitiful, just make evrything they way it was HISTORICALLY!!
(or as close as the game allows)
Do not get me wrong, all the work done for 8.0 was and is Greatly appreciated, BUT, to me it looked as if the oobs turned into someones personal set, they had made and been experimenting with. I know we should have never even gotten an 8.0, but it was said it was going to be done, then the long long delays, then to get someones fantasy oobs!!!!
I know I am not too far off base in that statement, or we would not be having all the OOB discussion we are having now.
All the testing that was done, and the long delay, no one noticed that MGs were now able to destroy tanks???
Anyway for me, 8.0 was a step BACK. I do not feel I am alone in this statement.
And before anyone says "you did not volunteer" I have worked on previous OOB sets, 7.0 and 7.1. but simply do not have time I used to.

We, before 8.0 and even before 7.1 had these same oob discussion threads, people posted actual statistics, references and the like, but yet, many were ignored or overlooked for the "right feel". This is why I feel alot of the discussions now have become heated and imflamatory.

Everyone who worked on 8.0 deserves credit for their hard work, do not let that go unmentioned! but please do not ignore hard data people have researched and posted.
I cant recall his name but he has been trying to get the 75mm M3 halftrack, in Usa or Usmc, cant recall which, to get supplied with the correct ammo for 2 years now!
With this thread and the one that was lost to the hacker, we are working on 200 posts, concerning the 8.0 oobs. Just in this one thread!!
Now that tells me that SOMETHING is going on??

Please dont take this as complaining, I just wish things were being discussed between the oob team and the forum more.
I remember when I worked on the oobs in previous versions, we would try to keep a running list of the changes posted, so members could look it over and see what has been missed and/or ignored.
Anyway Ive babbled enough....
Im in my corner for a timeout[;)]


C'mon guys Lets get this place back to being the kind of place I know it can be!!

Sorry if I offended anyone, but enough is enough!!

[Rune Iversen]

Beer.

[JJKettunen]

Hear, hear!

[Major_Mess]

I second that, it's distressing to see the tone of this forum lately.

Its a GAME.

A FREE GAME.

Thank you everyone who has been part of this game.

Lets have fun.

Sorry for preaching.

Major Mess

[Warrior2]

ORIGINAL: Major Mess

I second that, it's distressing to see the tone of this forum lately.

Its a GAME.

A FREE GAME.

Thank you everyone who has been part of this game.

Lets have fun.

Ditto.

[hogg]

Roger that!

[rich12545]

I guess there's an advantage to not being a grognard. If the rate of fire is really six rounds a minute instead of seven I don't get excited. As long as the game is fairly realistic but mainly if it's fun to play then I'm happy. Imo, spwaw is the best free game I've ever seen bar none. Except for machine guns blowing up tanks (I remember that used to happen in Tanks a few years ago) then I don't get all upset at minor details.

And I haven't seen all the rancor on the site. But then I don't get involved in grognard discussions. Ignorance is bliss. [:D]

[KG Erwin]

Alby, the unfortunate forum behavior issues that were raised have been resolved. You can visit the 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions thread and see that members of the OOB Team are responding. Yes, I had to resort to deleting some of the worst posts, and yes, I screwed up by letting my personal involvement with the team cloud my judgement as a moderator. This will not happen again. The rules of forum behavior as established by Matrix will be adhered to as long as this forum is on my watch.
I don't get paid for being involved with all this, neither does any other moderator or design team member. We do it for the love of the game, that and nothing more.
Everything here will be fine, Alby. We hit a road bump, but we're moving on.
Glenn "KG Erwin" Higginbotham

ORIGINAL: Alby

This forum used to be a place where people from all over the world could come together, discuss a great game, post actual data, newbies could get the help and support they needed, and we could laugh and poke fun at each other.
Now we have posts being deleted left and right, the people who are deleting the posts seem to post just as insulting and inflamatory remarks as the ones that were deleted.
From the outside looking in, not posting alot these days, but just reading, It seems a select few now seem to run the show, kept every change secret, but criticize those who call for OOB accuracy.
The oob issue is so simple its pitiful, just make evrything they way is was HISTORICALLY!!
Do not get me wrong, all the work done for 8.0 was and is Greatly appreciated, BUT, to me it looked as if the oobs turned into someones personal set, they had made and been experimenting with. I know we should have never even gotten an 8.0, but if was said it was going to be done, then the long long delays, then to get someones fantasy oobs!!!!
I know I am not too far off base in that statement, or we would not be having all the OOB discussion we are having now.
All the testing that was done, and the long delay, no one noticed that MGs were now able to destroy tanks???
Anyway for me, 8.0 was a step BACK. I do not feel I am alone in this statement.
And before anyone says "you did not volunteer" I have worked on previous OOB sets, 7.0 and 7.1. but simply do not have time I used to.

We, before 8.0 and even before 7.1 had these same oob discussion threads, people posted actual statistics, references and the like, but yet, many were ignored or overlooked for the "right feel". This is why I feel alot of the discussions now have become heated and imflamatory.

Everyone who worked on 8.0 deserves credit for their hard work, do not let that go unmentioned!

C'mon guys Lets get this place back to being the kind of place I know it can be!!
Sorry if I offended anyone, but enough is enough!!

[harlekwin]

Wow I guess the last two days were like the dream episode of Dallas.....

what killed 2 days worth of posts?

[KG Erwin]

Hmm, I wasn't able to even sign on for most of yesterday. I haven't heard anything from anyone on the upper management level, so your guess is as good as mine. "What the heck happened...?" is indeed a valid question.

[Alby]

KG
wasnt directed at you personally, just at EVERYTHING that has been going on.

[robot]

I posted a new thred to bernie yesterday and now its gone. It was about the meeting later on this year in fort knox. What did happen yesterday i had a heck of a time gettin in today. Seems my password was lost.

Also noticed any replys i made are gone too from yesterday.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: robot

I posted a new thred to bernie yesterday and now its gone. It was about the meeting later on this year in fort knox. What did happen yesterday i had a heck of a time gettin in today. Seems my password was lost.

Also noticed any replys i made are gone too from yesterday.

The Gallipoli thread in the Korsun Pocket forum had at least the last half of it chopped for unknown reasons.

[Warrior2]

Maybe there's still some of the virus floating around in the database and making random deletions. It, or whatever gremlin is operating, also deleted part of my signature (now restored).

[KG Erwin]

Guys, as soon as I get some info from the admins, I'll pass it along.

[o4r]

Just make everything historical and everything is solve. There is no need for balance of game. If PZ III short 37mm ATG gun cant penetrate the armour of some heavies of the French and British, so be it.

I dun understand why need that balance. SPWAW was intially done to make them historical, now too many changes has been made to make them balance.

[Gvaihir]

KG Erwin, a question...

I started a thread om winter uniforms and camos but now the entire thread is gone...
Do you know what's the problem?

Gvaihir

[BulletMagnet]

This forum is still filled with the most mature and kindly group of people who are willing to help you.I find it quite enjoyable to come to a forum without profanity or threads tittled "this suxxs..." So,,,'

To all of you holding the flame...I salute you.

[Tombstone]

It's probably not worth getting into but hey... Accomplishing historical accuracy is hard enough to accomplish alone. Telling the developers that's all they have to do is unfair. But these guys have to do MUCH more than that. I'm fairly certain the oob folks aren't trying to make a PzIIIe balanced in combat vs. an A10 cruiser. When you're trying to balance a game you are trying to take the axes of control that the player has (practically speaking this means force selection) and make it so that a balance can be controlled. Figuring out how that balance is extraordinarily complex, and also very important. You want to know what's possible and not WITHIN the scope of the play experience. Certainly SPWAW attempts to provide an experience that comes as close as possible to reality. However, historical accuracy doesn't mean combat result accuracy. Having 100% historical accuracy within a system that isn't 100% accurate will create a randomly inaccurate result (which is totally unacceptable). That means you need to take a long hard look at how the system will create inaccuracies and work both with the forces, their costs, how they're selected, the way in which systems interact, etc., etc. (btw, this list never ends) and do what you can to make the overall product yeild the best result. No easy task for even simple games, and this game is particularly complex. From what I know, I actually think there are some unsolvable problems in SPWAW as well as problems that are so complex that there is no clarity on wether or not certain solutions will EVER be found. We all want a historically accurate experience, but don't knock the faithful until you've walked in their footsteps some.

As far as the social dynamic of this place.... I don't know about behavior on this forum lately, cause I'm so totally AWOL with work and all... but I remember this place to be the best forum in the universe. If this is no longer true, then I feel sorry for those who didn't get the chance to participate when it was totally sweet.

Tomo

[harlekwin]

ORIGINAL: Tombstone

It's probably not worth getting into but hey... Accomplishing historical accuracy is hard enough to accomplish alone. Telling the developers that's all they have to do is unfair. But these guys have to do MUCH more than that. I'm fairly certain the oob folks aren't trying to make a PzIIIe balanced in combat vs. an A10 cruiser. When you're trying to balance a game you are trying to take the axes of control that the player has (practically speaking this means force selection) and make it so that a balance can be controlled. Figuring out how that balance is extraordinarily complex, and also very important. You want to know what's possible and not WITHIN the scope of the play experience. Certainly SPWAW attempts to provide an experience that comes as close as possible to reality. However, historical accuracy doesn't mean combat result accuracy. Having 100% historical accuracy within a system that isn't 100% accurate will create a randomly inaccurate result (which is totally unacceptable). That means you need to take a long hard look at how the system will create inaccuracies and work both with the forces, their costs, how they're selected, the way in which systems interact, etc., etc. (btw, this list never ends) and do what you can to make the overall product yeild the best result. No easy task for even simple games, and this game is particularly complex. From what I know, I actually think there are some unsolvable problems in SPWAW as well as problems that are so complex that there is no clarity on wether or not certain solutions will EVER be found. We all want a historically accurate experience, but don't knock the faithful until you've walked in their footsteps some.

As far as the social dynamic of this place.... I don't know about behavior on this forum lately, cause I'm so totally AWOL with work and all... but I remember this place to be the best forum in the universe. If this is no longer true, then I feel sorry for those who didn't get the chance to participate when it was totally sweet.

Tomo

I have walked in their shoes.

You helped.

regards,
sven

p.s. I shall repost a lost post I made to Bill.