TGPW (TGW 1941-1945 with modification)

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:39 pm

I want to show my play on a game I've started and hopefully, I'll get some advice on what I can improve in moving the pieces around. It's basically TGW 1941 - 1945, but I edited the Soviet divisions to not to be divisible, recolored the units, added smaller towns strictly as a historical reference, made two very minor map alterations, and renamed it TGPW (The Great Patriotic War). Thank you Steve and Larry for this scenario. It's great fun.

Right now I'm more concerned about the defense of Moscow, but let's start in the South.

When I play, I create a rudimentary map in excel/sheets (no rivers, sorry) so I can see quickly where the Armies and Fronts are (I can move the Armies, PzK markers, and Front delineations around as drag and drop). I put the Panzer Korp in the color rose so I can specifically see where Elmer is driving.

: SW Front.png (127.27 KiB) Viewed 2520 times

I also use a pivot table to track the current condition of each Front, Army, and Corp. It's a lot of extra bookkeeping, but, the Corp is the main Soviet formation in this scenario and this is how I keep track of it all instead of "you three go here, because it's close". There are 189 Corp formations and I enjoy the process of tracking, reforming formations and Armies and planning (and watching entire armies disappear in two turns then slowly start to reform after a few turns. Ugh...).

: SW front turn 13.png (37.38 KiB) Viewed 2520 times

I'm just starting to get some, hopefully, less evaporative units, but the 1st PzG went from Cherkassy to knocking on the door at Dnepropetrovsk really fast, and the 17A and 11A turned what I thought was a good stalling defense to mulch on the Nikolayev-Krivoi Rog axis in those two turns as well. There seems to be no push on Odessa and Elmer is wasting a Pz Division there for some reason. Here's both the Southwest and Southern Fronts.

: South turn 13.jpg (1.59 MiB) Viewed 2520 times

The next entry will be open for advice and comment.

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:54 pm

Kiev - in front of Kiev; about 16 points of INF in various stages of digging in, an ART regiment and an AA brigade. In Kiev are 13 more points of ART in Tactical Reserve. Gerry has about 112 Assault points 6 INF divisions, two PZ, two Hungarian MOT brigade, and four Italian divisions - no engineers that I can see and I'm sure there is ART behind them.

: Kiev proper.jpg (357.49 KiB) Viewed 2518 times

They are going to get blown back into the city next turn, aren't they?

cathar1244 · Post by **cathar1244** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:32 am

Cpl GAC wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:39 pm

When I play, I create a rudimentary map in excel/sheets (no rivers, sorry) so I can see quickly where the Armies and Fronts are (I can move the Armies, PzK markers, and Front delineations around as drag and drop). I put the Panzer Korp in the color rose so I can specifically see where Elmer is driving.

In Excel, one can turn off the grid lines and load a wargame map as a background. Not sure the limits of the size of the background image or how many independent graphical objects (the units) to have to move around, but it would probably support what you depicted in your comment.

Cheers

: excel as wargame.png (924.56 KiB) Viewed 2496 times

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:00 pm

Thank you for the suggestion. I couldn't figure out how to pull a map file from the .SCE, and, I am a huge fan of Google Slides, so... if the map as a background looks familiar, also note that it happens to be the same scale as the TGW map.

: new map.png (601.49 KiB) Viewed 2471 times

NOTE - the 4th PzG left AGN turns ago and I think I can make Elmer pay for that - no tanks to be seen - in a few months. That is if I can hold Moscow...

cathar1244 · Post by **cathar1244** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:14 am

I was able to create a .jpg of the map using TOAW ("export map image" or similar in the menus).

I was able to load this as a background to Excel. I can't upload it here because the file is 20 Megabytes.

What I could not recall is how to limit the number of rows and columns in Excel so the same background image doesn't repeat multiple times.

Cheers

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:16 pm

cathar1244 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:14 am I was able to create a .jpg of the map using TOAW ("export map image" or similar in the menus).

...

Cheers

Thank you - got it.

golden delicious · Post by **golden delicious** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:31 pm

Cpl GAC wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:39 pm When I play, I create a rudimentary map in excel/sheets

I did this recently for a scenario so that I could use a formula output a count of reinforcements per hex, then use conditional formatting to visualise where the reinforcements are spread over the map.

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:25 pm

cather1244, I'm having trouble keeping a zoomable resolution on the exported maps - and the one I built off the old board game photo seems a bit easier to read zoomed in, so I'm staying with it unless I can figure out something. And now back to our show.

Gerry's turn 13 assault on Kiev - they brought in another INF division - weakened but did not crack the 1st line defense. The Soviet ART retreated into Kiev for reorganization, and the regular INF went from 10 points to 8 points of defense. Paratroopers and AA were unaffected.

Making my ART regiment retreat - is that a sign that there is a lot of ART behind Gerry's assault on Kiev?

Also Elmer ran a sacrificial motorized division from AGC behind Kiev - him I'm not worried about. The 26A will stomp him, and I'll push the bridging engineers back.

Now - the new problem at Cherkassy... Pretty much all of AGS's motorized and the rest of the Hungarian forces have created a bridgehead. I have 19A, a Corp from the 5th ShockA (pulled from reserve), and the 40A to deal with it, but, sending forces west as I'm trying to slow up my eastern retreat and not get pocketed is the fun, I guess. I just want to make crossing the Southern Dnepr as costly as possible.

: turn 14 SW Front Kiev.jpg (402.74 KiB) Viewed 2408 times

: turn 14 SW Front.jpg (495.19 KiB) Viewed 2408 times

cathar1244 · Post by **cathar1244** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:21 pm

cather1244, I'm having trouble keeping a zoomable resolution on the exported maps - and the one I built off the old board game photo seems a bit easier to read zoomed in, so I'm staying with it unless I can figure out something.

It is a semi-interesting thing.

I discovered if I zoom in on the TOAW map and then save it to .jpg, it saves the zoomed in map, but is four times larger (some 85 megs). But Excel didn't mind, it loaded it as background. I've attached a screenshot.

Not sure how well it zooms for what you want to do.

Cheers

: Screenshot 2022-09-19 191732.jpg (179.85 KiB) Viewed 2384 times

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:14 pm

Cathar1244, thanks for your diligence. After trial and error and research after seeing your screenshot, I discovered it's a Google Workspace limitation, so I tried it in Libre Calc (I don't have Excel/Microsoft Office)... and voilà!

: libre.jpg (384.92 KiB) Viewed 2345 times

cathar1244 · Post by **cathar1244** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:35 pm

Super!

I've done this once with Librecalc as well. Seemed like it was a lot less obvious to load the image as background (or the units as graphic objects), but it was possible.

Cool that you've got it working!

Beyond TOAW uses, I've often thought that would be a way of "digitizing" old board wargames.

Cheers

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:49 pm

I stated this before - TGW is the same scale as the 1970s Game Designer's Workshop Drang Nach Osten/Unentschieden (DNO/UNT) - the monster of all board games. My dad and I used to play it, but now it's with all the beyond significant improvements computer play brings.

So, I view this scenario as a greatly improved DNO/UNT. Now I just curse at Elmer/Steve Sill, Jerry Lebakken & Larry Fulkerson instead of cursing at my dad from across a ping-pong table.

golden delicious · Post by **golden delicious** » Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:14 pm

Cpl GAC wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:49 pm I stated this before - TGW is the same scale as the 1970s Game Designer's Workshop Drang Nach Osten/Unentschieden (DNO/UNT) - the monster of all board games. My dad and I used to play it, but now it's with all the beyond significant improvements computer play brings.

So, I view this scenario as a greatly improved DNO/UNT. Now I just curse at Elmer/Steve Sill, Jerry Lebakken & Larry Fulkerson instead of cursing at my dad from across a ping-pong table.

It has the advantage that when you thump your fist on the table, the counters don't go flying in the air

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:30 pm

Finer point of play; is it better to keep this AA division dug in for the inevitable defense of Kiev proper or use it in Tactical Reserve? It's 7 points of Anti personnel and 6 of Anti armor. Is it better used as helping cool off a German Assault in the suburbs or staying dug-in?

: Tactical reserve or keep dug in.jpg (118.47 KiB) Viewed 2226 times

My usual strategy of bracing the Leningrad axis early (currently up there- 27A, 59A, 8A, 11A, 34A, 55A with 42A in reserve) has paid off. I hold Narva and the Pskov-Kholm line. Its success is immeasurably helped by Elmer sending the 4PzG East from Riga and Daugavpils. The trade-off being AGC is therefore historically ahead of schedule on the left fist heading for Moscow. I might have real problems there. Rzhev is lost.

The German supply net collapsed the last turn and I've been able to dig in a little more, but I also started using Guards as fire brigades instead of letting the formations build out.

: Turn 18.jpg (1.41 MiB) Viewed 2226 times

Elmer has breached the Dnepr at Cherkassy (again) and Kherson. I'm going to hold Kiev to the bitter end, even f I lose the 4 Armies and collateral losses. I'm also thinking Elmer's track is going to take the 2PzG Northeast - away from Kiev and the Southwest Front.

I'm starting to switch from retreating as best I can to wanting a long front line and defending in depth where I think the punch is going.

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:41 pm

cathar1244 - zoom-in is no problem now, and I also changed the colors of the exported map by using filters to better show the Army markers - this thing works great!

: improved planning map.jpg (563.16 KiB) Viewed 2224 times

golden delicious · Post by **golden delicious** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:47 pm

Cpl GAC wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:30 pm Finer point of play; is it better to keep this AA division dug in for the inevitable defense of Kiev proper or use it in Tactical Reserve? It's 7 points of Anti personnel and 6 of Anti armor. Is it better used as helping cool off a German Assault in the suburbs or staying dug-in?

I basically never use a tactical reserve deployment except for artillery, but if I did I would only use it for armour (at least in a wwii scenario) as unexpectedly encountering armour may slow down the attacker a fair bit.

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:18 pm

Golden - I'm a big proponent of putting some infantry in Tactical Reserve - actually anything to surprise an assault with a counter move. Playing the Soviets in 1941 one patches and mends what one can because the armor is in ruins.

Turn 29 - The best laid schemes of mice and men Go often awry;

It's early January, I start pushing back and the 7Pz basically rolls in from the north, slices through the 52 Army's 73Rifle Corp and pushes back and stuns the 1st Shock Army into reorganization. I thought I could now stretch out and unstack. Not near the Panzers anyways;

: turn 29 7Pz shreds 52A & stuns 1st Shock.png (835.32 KiB) Viewed 2173 times

cathar1244 · Post by **cathar1244** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:32 am

Yeah, those maps look good!

Cheers

golden delicious · Post by **golden delicious** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:46 pm

Cpl GAC wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:18 pm Golden - I'm a big proponent of putting some infantry in Tactical Reserve - actually anything to surprise an assault with a counter move. Playing the Soviets in 1941 one patches and mends what one can because the armor is in ruins.

I find units on tac reserve, especially soft units, are usually marching into a firestorm of artillery where they don't stand a chance and may even inadvertently march into a trap, or cause a density light to appear. If I have the luxury of having defenders set back, I'd rather dig them in where they are- or pull them far enough back to be an operational reserve that I can use as I see fit rather than have them move automatically based on what the other guy does- but this is just my preference.

Cpl GAC · Post by **Cpl GAC** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:10 pm

golden delicious wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:46 pm I find units on tac reserve, especially soft units, are usually marching into a firestorm of artillery where they don't stand a chance and may even inadvertently march into a trap, or cause a density light to appear.

I should test it, but, as the Soviets in 1941 if marching rifle units into artillery slows down the German advance... I'll share what I discover if I test it unless someone is pretty sure my tactic is idiotic and can save me the learning curve...

=> A 1941 German infantry division moving up one hex with an artillery brigade behind it on tactical reserve assaulting a dug-in (D) Russian Rifle division with another division on tactical reserve behind it, then same thing but the 2nd rifle division is also dug in. Does Gerry get both hexes and at what cost to both sides.