Japanese First turn magic move taskforces not moving much

[Trugrit]

This stuff is interesting from an academic standpoint.
Just looking at the game and how it functions.

If I take that same TF…..TF4 and set the destination as shown it
will stop short even though it has a clear path to target from map north.????

It appears that it will not pass through an Allied base.

My guess is that it is programmed to stop if it hits a base hex and if
the target is beyond the base hex it will stop short.

TF Stop.jpg (224.13 KiB) Viewed 832 times

[Trugrit]

I did a run at Port Moresby as well.

The KB stopped short and so did the oilers for no reason I can see.

The oilers were not following the KB they were independent and they
stopped short in the same hex as the KB.

[Chris21wen]

This stuff is interesting from an academic standpoint.
Just looking at the game and how it functions.

If I take that same TF…..TF4 and set the destination as shown it
will stop short even though it has a clear path to target from map north.????

It appears that it will not pass through an Allied base.

My guess is that it is programmed to stop if it hits a base hex and if
the target is beyond the base hex it will stop short.

It's not that it won't go through a bases, it will eventually. There's two problem here the main being the air threat in Luzon which its avoiding. Setting it to direct prevents this. The other does appear to be the bases. I did try using waypoints to take directly south then east through the bases but even with direct set it stopped seven hexes away. Its destination and route remained the same and in the next turn it did move through the bases to it's destination.

I don't know why it would not go through the bases on turn one, it should as (*)TF behave in the exact same way as normal TFs except for range. Maybe nornal TF behave like this as well??

[Trugrit]

Maybe….As I recall the game won’t route task forces through
enemy base hexes because of mines...etc.

If you want a task force to go into an enemy base hex you have to send it there.
I’m getting old and can’t hold all of this in my mind anymore.

It is interesting what you can see of the “under the hood” game code just by observation.

You can start Scenario 1 in Head to Head play with Historical first turn and
Dec 7 surprise turned off.

In the Japanese orders phase turn one, the Japanese player can see a ground unit
marker in almost every hex on the map where the Allied player has ground forces.
The airfield and port markers don’t show up.

Then you can stand down all the Japanese air groups both army and navy.
Advance to the Allied turn and stand down all the Allied Air groups both army and navy.

Run the turn…..and when the Japanese order turn comes up there are some Allied
Port and airfield markers that show up on the map in far away places.

At a location like Perth the Japanese get a report of the ship types located
…..and there are not any Japanese forces within almost 3,000 nautical miles of Perth
at game start. Nothing about Perth on the siglnt report.

The game code moves detection levels based on it’s own internal logic.

A fascinating game, there is always something to learn about it.

Perth.jpg (112.73 KiB) Viewed 757 times

[Chris21wen]

I did a run at Port Moresby as well.

The KB stopped short and so did the oilers for no reason I can see.

The oilers were not following the KB they were independent and they
stopped short in the same hex as the KB.

I tried this, setting all the (*)TF in Samah to PM only one of which never reached it, TF85. This TF has an xAK with a max speed of 10 with none of the other TFs having such a slow speed ship. Transferring it to another TF, say 91, results in that TF now not reaching PM. This is a speed related problem as the ship does have the speed to reach PM.

The KB and oilers are not so easy to sort out, In fact I didn't, something strange going on I think. On my first attempt I set their destination as PM itself (78 hexes direct) and they both reached and remained in the hex.

If I set the KB to a hex within strike range of PM what happens depend upon the hex being north or south of PM. If north the KB behaves as normal, if south it doesn't. Anything >=5 hexes from PM and your OK. Any range between 1-4 however it not. No amount of fiddling with settings fixed it. I can only guess its something to do with the Allied island bases, E.g. Rossel Is etc.

There is a way to do it and that is to follow another (*)TF with a stand off setting, even following the oilers works but I used TF141, the Midway DDs which, despite not being shown as (*)TF, is.

[AtParmentier]

Hello again,
after some trying I found that the task force reached the destination I wanted, however I had to switch from patrol zone (which I originally used to keep the ship in that hex) to set destination. Didn't have to change threat levels, which were on Direct and normal).
Other taskforces on patrol do reach their target area, but some taskforces don't for some reason, even with maximum threat levels allowed.

[Gratch1111]

As far as I can see, a lot of Japanese players discard Pearl on the first turn and attack Manilla instead, since they cant carrier hunt and subs are more dangerous than BBs. I gather from your discussion that if the Japanese had done that they would have been seen, with the KB, and therefore no surprise. Is that a correct interpretation?

[Gratch1111]

As far as I can see, a lot of Japanese players discard Pearl on the first turn and attack Manilla instead, since they cant carrier hunt and subs are more dangerous than BBs. I gather from your discussion that if the Japanese had done that they would have been seen, with the KB, and therefore no surprise. Is that a correct interpretation?

[RangerJoe]

There were no merchant ships seen on the route that the Kido Butai took to Pearl Harbor. There would have been enough non-Japanese merchant ships to see the Kido Butai on the way to Manila.

[Chris21wen]

Hello again,
after some trying I found that the task force reached the destination I wanted, however I had to switch from patrol zone (which I originally used to keep the ship in that hex) to set destination. Didn't have to change threat levels, which were on Direct and normal).
Other taskforces on patrol do reach their target area, but some taskforces don't for some reason, even with maximum threat levels allowed.

I've never tried setting patrol zones for (*)TF on the first turn so don't know how they behave. Never even considered it franckly when a simple 'remain on station' works. Changing the TF to patrol on the second turn maybe an option.

You need to be more specific with the second part, what TFs and where.

[Chris21wen]

As far as I can see, a lot of Japanese players discard Pearl on the first turn and attack Manilla instead, since they cant carrier hunt and subs are more dangerous than BBs. I gather from your discussion that if the Japanese had done that they would have been seen, with the KB, and therefore no surprise. Is that a correct interpretation?

It's not about being seen or the surprise element it's about where and how far they could reach and what's a viable target for the transports and hence any supporting elements such as the KB. Sending the KB into the S China Sea may well have resulted in them being spotted but the Japanese had enough bases to validate them going there or even exercising. Had they been seen does that mean the Allies coulld or would have done anything as until the first attacks there's no war. I believe the Allies aleready knew there were transports at sea prior to Dec 7 but not were they were going so I suspect spotting the KB would not have made much difference. The Japanese were ready for war, the Allies not so much, certainly not the British or Dutch.

You can attack Manila from the Phillippine Sea which is also a large expanse of water therefore surprise could have been acheived. I've also attacked Singapore with KB.

The fact the attack on Malaya took place 2 hours before PH it's hard to believe the US did not know about it, but how and why the US did not react is a different subject. But then hindsight is a wonderful thing.