Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Please post your after action reports on your battles and campaigns here.

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Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T51 - Soviet Perspective

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This will be an interesting turn as there will be lots of action across a number of theatres. For me the main event is I can finally create rifle corps (up to 41 of them). I have many guard rifle divisions so I will be prioritising guard corps for obvious reasons. At the start of Jul 42 which isn’t too far away, my national moral increases from 45% to 50% and Axis decrease from 75% to 70%. It takes a few turns for this to be reflected throughout the units however at least this will greatly improve the fighting capability of my army. Poor Soviet morale leads to insanely high losses relative to Axis losses in most battles.

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There was 1 localised attack from Axis forces near Novgorod. This goes to the point I made a few turns ago about attacking forces with overwhelming numbers suffering high losses and not getting as many shots in. Despite being a much smaller force, Soviet inflicted more destroyed/damaged/disrupted losses than Axis forces who outnumbered on manpower, guns (and quality).

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I make one attack in the area and take control of the northern tip of the swamp hexes and then I moved a fresh rifle division and my 2-cavalry corps to the newly conquered hex. I want to make sure that the base CV on the 2 hexes flanking this newly conquered hex is strong and that I don’t get encircled. The northern hex has 70 defensive CV and can only be attacked from 1 direction (unless other hexes are conquered) and the southern hex has ~200 CV owing to the guard rifle corps. I think these units are safe but only one way to find out!
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T51 - Soviet Perspective Cont..

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JB has noticed my weakened defence on the approach to Vyzama. Following his push north of Smolensk last turn I had to move units further north but that has now left weak defence near Vyzama.

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A glorious battle takes place near Vyzama on the advancing axis forces. Prior to attacking I converted all the surrounding hexes first so any defeat would result in a route. The axis units will no doubt rally next turn but this increases the losses materially, especially in trucks (935 lost)

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There are a lot more Axis forces around Bryansk/Orel this turn. I have a lot of guard rifle divisions in the area and I can create some further guard corps here but I think I’m still outnumbered which is never a good position to be in as soviets.
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T51 - Soviet Perspective Cont..

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This is my defence near the end of my turn. I have created a number of additional guard corps near Bryansk and have shifted a few armies further west to give Orel some more firepower. JB has been attacking with motorised/panzer elements and then falling back behind infantry at the end of the turn so there are few opportunities for counter attacks. At least this means they’re not building up CPP as quickly with all the movement (in theory!)

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Stalino is interesting. The double envelopment continues to close in around the city and there has been some herding south of Stalino with 3 rifle divisions encircled. The southern flank does look weaker with single stacked divisions that have moved/attacked last turn so I think I’ll be able to free my units. I need to be careful not to just create a larger pocket next turn though. My plan is to attack the southern units with most of my armies in the area and then try and shift other units that are stationed further north to fill the gap.

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Step 1: Use my mobile units to attack the infantry division in the second row. If I attacked the infantry division closest to me it would have retreated 1 hex and made this attack more difficult. This also has the added benefit of isolating the unit at the front so it will now rout if defeated. Interestingly I heavily outnumber Axis forces in fighter aircraft in this sector so I need to make as many attacks as feasible in this sector this turn.

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Step 2: Attack the isolated infantry division leading to a rout. More Axis fighters came to the fight this battle but at least I was able to down a lot of Axis bombers
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T51 - Soviet Perspective Cont..

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Step 3: Attack the other isolated divisions against the Sea of Azov for a further rout.

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Step 4: Bring in fresh army that was defending against the northern flank to attack in the south. Start with the units furthest away from the planned attack to make the most of your MPs.

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Step 5: Final attack made on the southern flank. I would love to attack the 100th Light division (12 def CV) that’s got ZOC on my 3 encircled units but I don’t have anymore units in the area that can reach. I have just enough MP for another deliberate attack with my Tank Corps if I wanted to but that would leave me with none left to escape and given Axis are still a lot stronger than me in this sector, that would be a sure way to be encircled next turn.

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This is what my defence looks like at the end of my turn. I’ve shifted a number of fresh armies south of the Donets River including a further 6 tank corps. This will give me some flexibility to counter attack the next turn if JB decides to advance quickly. There is still a lot of firepower in Axis southern flank and even more in the northern one so hopefully I have enough forces in the area to prevent an encirclement.
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T51 - Soviet Perspective Cont..

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Loss screen just showing the Soviet action phase. My attacks from the Southern front have drained the CPP in a lot of my units so the same intensity won’t happen next turn and I’m likely to take heavy losses in the area (which would happen regardless!). Hopefully I’ve got enough defence in depth to stop any encirclements though. Once it was identified this is an area I can contest the air war, I had to commit as hard as I could.
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HardLuckYetAgain
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

Nice attacks Veterin. Should be a "very" interesting summer AAR from both of you two. I can say you took advantage of the situation and did your attacking in a very methodical manner. Awesome job!

Screen Shot 2022-09-29 at 8.27.17 AM.png
Screen Shot 2022-09-29 at 8.27.17 AM.png (2.91 MiB) Viewed 1186 times


Thank you both for a wonderful AAR. Now JB kick his butt! (Sorry Veterin, I have to root for Germany :D )
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
jasonbroomer
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

T52 Axis

Nawh, I guess I'm not too surprised about what happened to AGC

T52 AGC Not surprising.png
T52 AGC Not surprising.png (2.85 MiB) Viewed 1124 times

Thankfully causalities were relatively modest, experienced motorised units take retreats and routs relatively well. I had 2 of those in the stack. I tend to be a bit caviller about the fate of light divisions, the third unit in the stack was one of those and it copped most of the losses.

Trucking losses are a pain but since I husbanded my trucks so carefully during the winter, I have a surfeit of trucks in units plus a pool which has been running around in the high teen thousands over recent turns. Anyway, somehow I need to get across this patch of open terrain outside of Smolensk and establish a new front to work out from thereafter. It's not obvious to me on how to go about this as clearly the best Russian offensive formations are in this sector.

Anyway, we continue to plug away and manage a couple of counterattacks in the sector but we take some time to lick our wounds.

As we move south towards Orel we unfortunately, we get hit by an array of activations

T52 AGC Activations happening at the right moment for the Sovs.png
T52 AGC Activations happening at the right moment for the Sovs.png (2.51 MiB) Viewed 1124 times

and an unGermanic number of holds

T52 AGC An awful lot of holds.png
T52 AGC An awful lot of holds.png (2.43 MiB) Viewed 1124 times

I suspect that last attack was my fault as no artillery was deployed, suggesting either that that the HQ was out of 5 hex range or I had neglected to deploy some artillery to the newly arrived LIX corps. With so much to do, either is an easy error to make, though the upside to such a vast campaign such as this is when booboos happen they are rarely game changing (which is why I dislike games like chess). I just need to concentrate on limiting the number of unforced errors.
Last edited by jasonbroomer on Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
jasonbroomer
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

T52 Axis AGCS cont

But not all is doom and gloom at OKH, as we do manage Manstein lifts moral and reminds us all that the Soviet hordes can be smashed attacks in the sector.

T52 AGC Some wins.png
T52 AGC Some wins.png (2.53 MiB) Viewed 1121 times

22k acounted for against the loss of under 100 Germans. I wish I could clone Manstein and Model.


News from the south is not great either, I really hadn't anticipated that pocket to be broken

T52 AGS I didn't expect that.png
T52 AGS I didn't expect that.png (2.48 MiB) Viewed 1121 times

:cry:

There is upside to this though, we now get to batter some Russians :D

T52 AGS Getting victories here even with activations.png
T52 AGS Getting victories here even with activations.png (2.25 MiB) Viewed 1121 times

Even corps sized reserve activations don't stop my troops (I can only rarely get German divisions to activate, how the hell does an entire corps get activated?)
jasonbroomer
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

T52 Axis AGS cont

And again, a further corps is activated on the northern wing of the Stalino encirclement

T52 AGS Getting victories here even with activations +1.png
T52 AGS Getting victories here even with activations +1.png (2.26 MiB) Viewed 1120 times

Not a problem for the boys in grey 8-)

Now our blood is up, let's send for the Roms

T52 AGS Even the Roms join in.png
T52 AGS Even the Roms join in.png (2.6 MiB) Viewed 1120 times

I think they had 3 Shredded Wheat for breakfast.

Cynics might think that this victory was down to the presence of a German division, but can you explain the results of this hasty attack

T52 AGS Rom hasty attacks succeed.png
T52 AGS Rom hasty attacks succeed.png (2.25 MiB) Viewed 1117 times

Okay, okay. 4 cossacks got away. I should have done a deliberate attack :idea: next time. Getting the Roms to do anything productive is as satisfying as getting a surly teenager to tidy his room


But even with my carefully nuturing of the Roms, taking on guard units is too much, so we send for DR with its killer CV (2nd RFSS brigade and a replacemen panzer battalion SUs). The "guard" division are swept asunder

T52 AGS Guards can rout too.png
T52 AGS Guards can rout too.png (2.28 MiB) Viewed 1120 times

causing almost as many casualties as I would have picked up if that pocket was held. Ah, natural justice administered by the Axis elite formations, it is so smoothing.


So this bit of an up lifting towards the end of turn improved what was otherwise a bit of a bruising week.
jasonbroomer
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

Supply

I have had very good supply in this game. I have been following Carlkeys (? apologies for not getting the name right) process of leaving all depots on 4 (especially on T1-4) and allowing them to fill. These strategic supplies can be released thereafter. In my first few turns I built a number of depots with large rail stations (both in occupied and non occupied areas) to facilitate the stockpiling. Later these areas (note not individual depots but actual groups of depots :D) are used to pulse.

I have monitored the supply leaving my 4 NSS (Berlin, Frankfurt, Prague and Vienna).

Over the first 6 turns, I extracted 1.475m tons of supply, or 245k per turn. I started to pulse in the south from turn 6, starting modestly at first to preserve the stockpiles.

From turn 7 to 17 (mud onset) I averaged 145k.

From T18 to 25 I averaged 159k

From T26 (first major blizzard) to T37 (last major blizzard) I averaged 139k, though note few of these blizzards extended too far west. I was unlucky that the front was pretty much under constant blizzard conditions, though lucky that my train lines were not too severely affected.

Since the end of April '42 to mid Aug '42, ((the rail malus disappears at the end of March, over March/April supply was disrupted by shipping panzers back from WE), turns 44-62 I have averaged 180k.

What does this mean?

Supply for the front was getting tight around D'town in the autumn. Careful stewardship over winter (and critically early preparation) meant that the front lines were well served. I take the view that the post mud turns are better spent digging in, consolidating and preparing rather than grabbing another hundred miles or two of useless ground. As a result, by the end of winter, supplies were beginning to stock levels were beginning to rebuild, thereby allowing me to launch a blistering spring offensive. Winter was a miserable experience but I fed my troops.

Supply has needed attention (sometimes a lot) but troops at the front have gotten what they require (if only they would fight harder).

I caveat this information that it needs to be taken in the context of this game. The Leningrad push is supply easy (other than trashing your truck fleet through all those swamps and forests). I did not begin to push past Smolensk nor D'town in '41, so my supply lines have been relatively short. I have not over extended myself, in part I can thank Vet for that :lol:
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T52 - Soviet Perspective

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No Axis battles up around Leningrad/Novgorod but interestingly I see a motorised unit here for the first time in a long time as well as what I believe are fresh reinforcements to the area (such as the 5th Jager division). At least some assets are being diverted from other fronts. Axis forces advanced into the hex they attacked last turn and are fairly close to Novgorod.

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I can’t leave that Axis salient there, especially with motorised units behind that can exploit any gaps in my line as I have very little depth here. Whilst Axis had a huge amount of defensive CV on this hex, I was able to attack from 5 hexes so numbers wins the day!

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The ongoing game of cat and mouse around Smolensk continues. There were a few attacks heading towards Vzyama with around ~10 axis divisions up the front. As I had to shift forces north this sector has weaker defence so I’ll need to do musical chairs again and move some defence back down into this area.

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No attacks made in the area this turn. There are just too many things that could go wrong next turn if I attempted it. This is my defence at the end of the turn. I’ve used my guard rifle corps to hold key terrain in well-fortified positions freeing up other units to shift south to plug the gap in the defence I had.
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T52 - Soviet Perspective Cont...

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This is an area of concern for me. A lot of my units around Orel have taken heavy losses and it looks like there are a tone of Axis units moving between Bryansk and Orel. My defence around Bryansk is strong but that’s meaningless if they’re surrounded. There’s a risk of encirclement from Smolensk direction too. Based on the attacks made on me and the recon I have, it looks like there are many mobile axis elements south east and south west of Orel as well.

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I only made 3 attacks in the area using my high CPP guard rifle corps in the area before retreating back to favourable terrain. JB has started putting weakened infantry divisions in the frontline to protect his attacking units the following turn. I’ve broken the Orel pocket but it will fall either way but at least that’s 1 more turn to close (if he encircles rather than attacking it). I’ve fallen back near Tula to regain TOE/CPP. Depending on where JB advances over the next few turns I may need to abandon Bryansk given the salient forming.

Following last turns heavy air losses from both sides, it looks like JB has put his bombers on rest as only fighters are coming into battles now. I have used my VSS less this turn as I need to keep an eye on pilot attrition. I used to use it on every attack I made but now I will be more selective.

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The far south has been very active for most of this game. JB pushed back most of my frontline last turn following all my counter attacks. North of Stalino the attacks were made with mostly infantry and those same infantry are sitting on the frontline so I’ll likely make some attacks in that area. South of Stalino, the attacks were mostly from motorised/panzer elements. Based on the attacks, I count 3 panzer divisions and Das Reich SS at a minimum.

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Unfortunately I have to abandon my strong defences around Stalino. If I don’t fall back this turn there’s a good chance I will be cut off and isolated. I make 3 attacks before falling back and have converted a number of rifle divisions to rifle corps. There are a lot of units fighting in a confined space for both sides so if there’s any sector it makes sense for me to create guard corps, it’s this one.
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

T52 - Soviet Perspective Cont...

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I used the VSS in my first attack and took heavy losses so I decided not to use it on my following 2 attacks in the area.

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Another heavy loss turn for both sides. I’m taking a lot of losses on defence which is unavoidable given I need to start holding some land/VPs. About 1/3rd of Axis manpower losses and most of the guns come from the Soviet action phase which is why it’s important I don’t just sit back and play and let them slowly roll through the motherland. I’m not sure of JBs supply situation but he’s advanced quickly in 1942 and it takes more supply to replace guns etc (assuming there’s enough in the pool in the first place!)

Losses are exceeding my ability to replenish so my armies continue to shrink over time. I’ve merged a number of rifle divisions this turn but I’ll still be in a deficit until Sep 42 when I get a bonus 450k manpower to the pool.
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:22 am Supply

I have had very good supply in this game. I have been following Carlkeys (? apologies for not getting the name right) process of leaving all depots on 4 (especially on T1-4) and allowing them to fill. These strategic supplies can be released thereafter. In my first few turns I built a number of depots with large rail stations (both in occupied and non occupied areas) to facilitate the stockpiling. Later these areas (note not individual depots but actual groups of depots :D) are used to pulse.

I have monitored the supply leaving my 4 NSS (Berlin, Frankfurt, Prague and Vienna).

Over the first 6 turns, I extracted 1.475m tons of supply, or 245k per turn. I started to pulse in the south from turn 6, starting modestly at first to preserve the stockpiles.

From turn 7 to 17 (mud onset) I averaged 145k.

From T18 to 25 I averaged 159k

From T26 (first major blizzard) to T37 (last major blizzard) I averaged 139k, though note few of these blizzards extended too far west. I was unlucky that the front was pretty much under constant blizzard conditions, though lucky that my train lines were not too severely affected.

Since the end of April '42 to mid Aug '42, ((the rail malus disappears at the end of March, over March/April supply was disrupted by shipping panzers back from WE), turns 44-62 I have averaged 180k.

What does this mean?

Supply for the front was getting tight around D'town in the autumn. Careful stewardship over winter (and critically early preparation) meant that the front lines were well served. I take the view that the post mud turns are better spent digging in, consolidating and preparing rather than grabbing another hundred miles or two of useless ground. As a result, by the end of winter, supplies were beginning to stock levels were beginning to rebuild, thereby allowing me to launch a blistering spring offensive. Winter was a miserable experience but I fed my troops.

Supply has needed attention (sometimes a lot) but troops at the front have gotten what they require (if only they would fight harder).

I caveat this information that it needs to be taken in the context of this game. The Leningrad push is supply easy (other than trashing your truck fleet through all those swamps and forests). I did not begin to push past Smolensk nor D'town in '41, so my supply lines have been relatively short. I have not over extended myself, in part I can thank Vet for that :lol:
That's some great supply management right there. I don't think i've seen any area of your frontline in 42 that's been short on supply (based on what i can see from recon anyway). Despite taking losses your on-map units remains strong and you're building many airports so supply must be plenty :P
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M60A3TTS
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by M60A3TTS »

OOB?
Veterin
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by Veterin »

M60A3TTS wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:09 pmOOB?
Next OOB screenshot i have is on T54 so will share it when we're up to that turn unless JB has one more current?
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

Veterin wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:30 am
M60A3TTS wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:09 pmOOB?
Next OOB screenshot i have is on T54 so will share it when we're up to that turn unless JB has one more current?
I don't tend to save the full OOB but this should provide an Idea
T53 Vet must be rebuilding manpower by disbanding units.png
T53 Vet must be rebuilding manpower by disbanding units.png (551.68 KiB) Viewed 851 times
I think Vet must have disbanded some units to get such a sharp drop in OOB in T53. My policy is to keep a firm foot on the throat of the Soviet manpower situation and try to throttle them as best I can. Inevitably I will get bitten regularly doing this and it is extremely painful, but I must keep this beast under control as best I can.
Last edited by jasonbroomer on Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

Veterin wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:59 pm T52 - Soviet Perspective


1.png


No Axis battles up around Leningrad/Novgorod but interestingly I see a motorised unit here for the first time in a long time as well as what I believe are fresh reinforcements to the area (such as the 5th Jager division). At least some assets are being diverted from other fronts. Axis forces advanced into the hex they attacked last turn and are fairly close to Novgorod.

I tend to leave at least one mobile unit in each sector for emergencies. This is the 20th MD, whose 2nd Regiment bravely suicided themselves to cut the dual Leningrad railroad on around turn 8. It took 5-6 turns to come back and then an age to retrain towards 80 experience. In the end I got fed up and merged it back into the division sometime in January. This division has been floating around not doing very much for a while so I decided to get into the action to fully restore the experience level.
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

T53 Axis AGN

I seem to have a lot of divisions in the north which are doing nothing but being propelled backwards. A change in approach is required, so I regiment many divisions, to leave 2 regiments manning decent defensive positions (divisions continue to guard more vulnerable spots). The excess regiments can be left on reserve and 3 divisions can massed off the line to act as a local counterattacking force in response to any future Russian attacks.

T53 AGN Regimenting and reserving to build up a counterstrike force.png
T53 AGN Regimenting and reserving to build up a counterstrike force.png (1.08 MiB) Viewed 848 times

In the centre, further tough battles take place

T53 AGC a tough battle.png
T53 AGC a tough battle.png (2.44 MiB) Viewed 848 times

Rather depressingly, we are now seeing nomenclature indicating that there are at least 17 tank corps and 15 guard corps on the map. This is a sign of things turning seriously awry, we signed up to be bullies in town and now we are threatened with the reverse :shock:
jasonbroomer
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Re: Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

Post by jasonbroomer »

T53 Axis AGCS

So we lift our spirits with some herding (sadly no SU comes with this unit, perhaps Vet had sacrificed it)

T53 AGCS sweet herding.png
T53 AGCS sweet herding.png (2.75 MiB) Viewed 843 times

and reminding Vet that our Guard is better than his guard

T53 AGCS our guard is better than yours.png
T53 AGCS our guard is better than yours.png (2.55 MiB) Viewed 843 times

We really don't fancy ploughing through the rough terrain around Bryansk, so our operation to capture Orel usefully threatens the Soviet flanks.

T53 AGC Smolensk will be interesting.png
T53 AGC Smolensk will be interesting.png (3.14 MiB) Viewed 843 times

On past form, Vet will fall back from this exposed salient and at last the door will be open for us to make some decent progress from Smolensk, despite the very strong defences in the sector. Fingers crossed that we can tick off a further strategic aim for the year.

I am slightly embarrassed that I haven't even reached Vyzama by this stage of the war
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