the next war 1979-ARR Turn 1-13 stage

[fulcrum28]

The situation of the scenario The next war 1979 at the beginning of the Turn 4 against PO NATO.

I still think that the loses in the tank battles are too excessive. I try to divide the divisions into brigades to avoid over stacking penalty which cause extra loses. Even that, sometimes there are too odd results in which an entire brigade of 150 tanks is evaporated. But still the scenario is fun to play.

I realised that North flank and South Flank are the weakest ones for NATO. In the North, the 2GTA supported by the V MD EG have almost surrounded Hamburg and could potentially encircle Bremen, moving forward to Hannover.

In the Center, the 3rd Shock Army is facing tough situation against British and West Germany armor. They should resist supported by the coming 20GA once they finish the Berlin Garrison. There is a dangerous gap at the north of Wolfsburg that needs to be covered.

The 8GA supported by the III MD EG, could progress fast through the Fulda Gap until it was stopped by armor units of the US Army. It seems possible to resist the line here and possibly expand it a bit further when supported by the coming 1GTA and elements of the 20GA.

In the south the situation is better. The IV Czech army is relatively well pushing back the US army forces, but the I Czech army faces a more complicated situation, because a US armored brigade deeply penetrated in the center. However, it seems possible that the SCGF reserve units can cover this area.

More interestingly, the Czech East Army can go further south west with little opposition, towards Munchen direction. That can be the same objective for the SSGF, which advances very fast after defeating the Austrian Army. The occupation of Wien led to the surrender of Austria. Then, after reaching Munchen, the SSFG could rotate northwest to move towards Wurzburg.

The Hungarian army is on a large scale tank battles against Italian units. IF successful, it can open the gates of north ITaly.

There are still strong reserves from the entire Polish army (three MD) as well as the SCGF which have not yet been committed to battle.

Denmark has not been assaulted. It could be done using amphibious and airborne operations. The airborne units are ready but not committed yet.

As I pointed out above, the NATO seems strong in the center, specially with British and US units, but some gaps in both flanks could decide the war.

The Next War 1979_units_arrows.jpg (7.37 MiB) Viewed 2452 times

[fulcrum28]

Here are the loses at the beginning of the Turn 4.

One question is someone knows: Why the T-55 seems stronger than the T-72??

[golden delicious]

Here are the loses at the beginning of the Turn 4.

One question is someone knows: Why the T-55 seems stronger than the T-72??

I'm not an expert but according to the screenshot the T-55 munition is HEAT whereas the T-72's is not. A lot of Cold War-era tanks in TOAW have a higher armour rating against HEAT, so in effect the T-72 would have a higher strength against those vehicles. You can see this in the screenshot in fact.

For example:
T-55 (late) vs. T-55 (late) would be 60 vs. 50
T-72 vs. T-55 (late) would be 40 vs. 20

[fulcrum28]

thanks for your feed-back. To destroy tanks, it seems better Armor-piercing ammunition (AP) than HEAT. How do we know when the tank unit is capable for AP ammunition. In the example, only the old T-55 are marked as HEAT. Are the T-72 considered as AP ammunition as default?

[fulcrum28]

Losses after Turn 4 for both sides. It seems that the tank battles are still very bloody. Perhaps the NATO Milan ATGM and very strong and very abundant. I am surprised about the precision. It is common that entire T-72/T-62 brigades of 150 tanks loses all their armor in a single offensive or defensive battle round. Not sure if the scenario has some bias or problem in this regard, but the campaign is interesting enough to continue some turns more.
The NATO infantry squads are suffering more losses than the WP ones.

[Curtis Lemay]

thanks for your feed-back. To destroy tanks, it seems better Armor-piercing ammunition (AP) than HEAT. How do we know when the tank unit is capable for AP ammunition. In the example, only the old T-55 are marked as HEAT. Are the T-72 considered as AP ammunition as default?

There is a "Kinetic" flag. If set, the Tank uses Kinetic AT. If not, it's assumed to be using HEAT.

There are three armor flags: Composite, Laminate, and Reactive. Setting any gives an edge against HEAT. Not sure what the magnitude of edges are or if setting multiple such flags has an additional impact.

[fulcrum28]

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure if I understand well, The T-72 does not show the words "KINETIC" on the unit data. And the Anti-Armor value is higher for the T-55. Then, the T-55 is stronger than the T-72?

[cathar1244]

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure if I understand well, The T-72 does not show the words "KINETIC" on the unit data. And the Anti-Armor value is higher for the T-55. Then, the T-55 is stronger than the T-72?

The T-72 in this scenario is firing kinetic ammo. Specified in FLAG4 of the equipment definition.

The armor of tank may rate differently for HEAT and kinetic projectiles. Not sure if TOAW throws in some 'salt' to reflect problems with HEAT ammunition. I'm pretty sure TOAW allows for variation in results to reflect things like a strongly armored vehicle getting hit in a spot at which the armor is thin.

Based on date of introduction and performance, the TOAW equipment definition for the T-72 may be modeling the 125-mm 3VBM9/3BM22/23 APFSDS kinetic projectile.

Cheers

[Curtis Lemay]

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure if I understand well, The T-72 does not show the words "KINETIC" on the unit data. And the Anti-Armor value is higher for the T-55. Then, the T-55 is stronger than the T-72?

There are only two possible AT types: Kinetic and HEAT. So, if it doesn't say HEAT, it's Kinetic.

The T-55 is stronger against some armor, if it doesn't have any protection against HEAT. But that's not the case against most modern tanks.

[cathar1244]

Thank you for your reply. I am not sure if I understand well, The T-72 does not show the words "KINETIC" on the unit data. And the Anti-Armor value is higher for the T-55. Then, the T-55 is stronger than the T-72?

The penetration of the T-55 seems overrated for a 1979 scenario. The HEAT penetration of 60 apparently reflects a series of cannon-launched guided missiles ("Bastion" etc.) that did not enter Soviet service until about 1983.

The 100mm HEAT round available in 1979 has been estimated at 375 to 380mm armor penetration. By comparison, the kinetic projectiles for the 100mm tank gun in 1979 could penetrate around 320mm of armor.

Cheers

[fulcrum28]

Thank you, Bob and Cathar, for clarifying comments.

Cathar, thanks for the details on the armor penetration.
I invite you to play a turn to the scenario to evaluate the tank losses. I know that modern warfare (compared to WW2) has significant changes in terms of losses. Yom Kippur campaign was 2 weeks, and the tank loses horrified NATO commanders, and highlighted the powerful role of anti-tank weapons to destroy tanks. 1,200 tanks (IDF) and 2,400 (Arab Forces) were lost. The Next War 1979 scenario is half week turn. You can see the losses in my AAR. I am playing WP against NATO PO.
Essentially, if a brigade (o division) of 150 (~300) T-55 or T-72 attacks (or defends) a NATO brigade (Or division) , most of armor is destroyed in a single battle. The WP, specially the NATO, brigades have a lot of AT support units such as ATGM Milan. Actually, it is difficult to know in TOAW whether the losses come from Tank-Tank fire or AT unit-Tank units, they are like combined arms counters, and the game does not track this information as far as I know. By setting limited losses (or smaller), the results do not seem to change to much. If you play a turn (or a single attack of a turn), you may understand what I am saying, and evaluate yourself if the losses are reasonable or overrated for the time period 1979.

Thanks again for the feed-back.

[cathar1244]

@fulcrum28

There is a logging option that tracks some of the game action. I ran one attack as Warsaw Pact against a NATO AI.

The attack was the 47th Guards Tank Division versus a German mech infantry brigade. Set the Russian division to "ignore losses".

Screenshot 2022-03-13 131515.jpg (86.1 KiB) Viewed 2179 times

Screenshot 2022-03-13 131645.jpg (169.96 KiB) Viewed 2179 times

Following is an extract of the action from the log file. It might give you some indication of what you're wondering about.

Combat : Attacking unit under fire: 47th Gds Tank (attrit: 1255)
Combat :
Combat : Smite: Warsaw Pact 3rd Shock Army, 47th Gds Tank, (anti-armor), attrition%= 102.
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Marder I (Improved) ICV. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 69 degrees -> 42] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [19 @ 68 degrees -> 20] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100% (Side Hit).
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [19 @ 61 degrees -> 22] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100% (Side Hit).
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 67 degrees -> 42] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 74 degrees -> 41] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 60 degrees -> 45] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 46 degrees -> 39] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 67%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 74 degrees -> 29] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 50 degrees -> 51] by Milan ATGM [50] is 96%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 65 degrees -> 43] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 72 degrees -> 29] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 85 degrees -> 28] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 80 degrees -> 40] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 51 degrees -> 50] by Marder I (Improved) ICV [50] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Marder I (Improved) ICV.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 90 degrees -> 39] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [19 @ 64 degrees -> 21] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100% (Side Hit).
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [19 @ 33 degrees -> 35] by Milan ATGM [50] is 100% (Side Hit).
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 73 degrees -> 41] by Milan ATGM [50] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 78 degrees -> 40] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 78 degrees -> 40] by Milan ATGM [50] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Marder I (Improved) ICV current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Marder I (Improved) ICV. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 66 degrees -> 43] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 65 degrees -> 43] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 79 degrees -> 29] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72(1) damaged, sent to replacement pool. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 68 degrees -> 30] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : No hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete. (shot missed)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Jagdpanzer Rakete current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 76 degrees -> 40] by Jagdpanzer Rakete [60] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Jagdpanzer Rakete.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 100%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Leopard I (Late) current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 109%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 86 degrees -> 28] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Leopard I (Late).
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 69 degrees -> 42] by Milan ATGM [50] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)
Combat : NATO weapons firing on Warsaw Pact T-72.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current terrain/lighting/weather dependent accuracy: 72%.
ATCombat : T-72 target cross section bias: 109%.
ATCombat : Milan ATGM current effective accuracy vs. T-72: 78%.
ATCombat : Chance of penetration on T-72 [39 @ 76 degrees -> 40] by Milan ATGM [50] is 100%.
ATCombat : Effective hit on Warsaw Pact T-72 by NATO Milan ATGM.
Combat : T-72 destroyed. (specificAttrit=118)

--

Cheers

[fulcrum28]

thanks a lot. Yes this file is useful. Lots of T-72 destroyed

more or less I understand the structure of the file, except the part regarding the angles (Degrees). I wonder how the game determines this part. The chance of penetration changes with the degrees. I didnt find anything in the manual regarding this interesting point.

[28 @ 46 degrees -> 39]
[28 @ 85 degrees -> 28]

I suspect that degrees of impact close to 90 degrees does not improve the defense values of the target. So in the above example, an impact at 85 degrees keeps the defensive value to 28.

Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 85 degrees -> 28] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 100%.

if the angle is lower, for example 46 degrees, there is a defensive improved value, from 28 to 39.

Chance of penetration on T-72 [28 @ 46 degrees -> 39] by Leopard I (Late) [32] is 67%.

So as I said, we still need to figure out how the game determines the angle of impact...perhaps a smooth non-linear function centered at 90 degrees?

[fulcrum28]

Turn 13 status. Huge armor losses from both sides.

[StuccoFresco]

Yeah that's definitely A LOT of tank losses.

[fulcrum28]

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4&t=379925

this issue has been discussed above. IT is unclear whether they may be realistic or not. I think in different mod thread the Ukraine scenario was set to AD=35 instead of 10, even being one dat battle turns, and losses decreased quickly. I may try the next war 1979 with different AD>10 (currently is AD=4) sometime in future. Currently entire brigades of 150 tanks are literally evaporated/smashed against defenses.

1)artillery must be used as support apparently so it does not make too much effect weaken positions
2)Airforce does not make a significant effect on ground attacks etc...

infantry defenders use Milan ATGM so tank loses are huge even without tank-tank battles...

[StuccoFresco]

No SU-22 nor Mig-27 for the Soviets?

[golden delicious]

I may try the next war 1979 with different AD>10 (currently is AD=4) sometime in future.

The Attrition Divider should be used with care. I'd always advocate playtesting a scenario with the default setting of 10 before modifying it, as it's likely that the results will be fairly good in any scenario with that setting. Then you can begin to tweak it one way or another.

4 is extremely low and it's no surprise to me if you find losses are too heavy.

[Curtis Lemay]

How do you know if the losses are too heavy in a hypothetical?