Urgent things still not/bad working

[Schatten]

Well first a real urgent thing:
War and Vassals

If you have any Vassals and declare War at other Empire they join the War, fine so should it be.
However if you end the War they dont. They just still in War forever (in one case over 100 years) building up War Attrition that leads to crumbling their remaining Empire...one World after next declares independancy (by the way they never try to conquer them back even if they have the Ships and Troops to do so).

Worse, if you have a Vassal go into War with a other Empire and end the War with Vassalisation of them that dont means they stop the War between them...nope they again in endless War between themself even if both are Vassals to you, with all the War Attrition Consequences.
There is also no Diplomatic option to tell them to stop that.

This thing makes having Vassals pointless as they kill themself by War Attrition.

Second:
Troop Levels in Policy Settings
Here is needed for both Colony Garrison and Attack Troop Level not only low/normal/high/very high but also zero or nothing or its again total usless since even with low the AI Spams your empire with Troops killing your economy.

Next one is Advisor and Station Building
Here you need to be able to put minimum levels for advice...lets say minimum 15% Scenery so the endless Spam of building advice fpr 3 or 6% locations stops. Same for Mining Sites and research.
Also please exclude Asteroid Fields from locations for Mining Stations, let it be a playfield for Mining Ships so they have any purpose.
Also if you decline a building advice put at last 6 or 12 Months limit till the adviros advises it again.

Last Research

in a 1000 Stars Galaxy where i own around 1/5th of it i have 88! Research Stations and not even build one at every position i could.
There are way too much research locations.....much to much. in such 1000 Stars Galaxy it should be mayby 10 of them if you own 1/5th of it or even less. Make this things valuable and slow down the reasearch by avoiding getting 100 Stations (not counting the AI owned). right now there to much

You can say same for the Scenery Locations...there like many hundred, rather thousands of 3% locations...what is it good for except adviros spam? (look for minimum levels)...less is more.

That was for the Moment.

[Jorgen_CAB]

The issue with research is that technology gain is linear while that is not really true in reality. Once you get to a certain level of funding in an area it will not produce twice the effect of adding twice the amount of funding or scientists to fix the problem.

In my opinion there should be a diminishing return for research stations, to the point they are almost useless to add eventually... but they will always give you some boost but should give less and less.

The effect of this would also mean that it does not really matter if you play in a large or small galaxy. It also would make smaller empires more technologically challenging as well. The linear approach makes large empires too much of an advantage that is not really realistic or, in my opinion, good for game play balance.

[arvcran2]

The issue with research is that technology gain is linear while that is not really true in reality. Once you get to a certain level of funding in an area it will not produce twice the effect of adding twice the amount of funding or scientists to fix the problem.

In my opinion there should be a diminishing return for research stations, to the point they are almost useless to add eventually... but they will always give you some boost but should give less and less.

The effect of this would also mean that it does not really matter if you play in a large or small galaxy. It also would make smaller empires more technologically challenging as well. The linear approach makes large empires too much of an advantage that is not really realistic or, in my opinion, good for game play balance.

That would be a good way to compensate for the AI not seeking research locations and expanding aggressively.

The diminishing return in DWU I think was too much though. The real solution lies, I believe, with improving the AI.

[Jorgen_CAB]

That would be a good way to compensate for the AI not seeking research locations and expanding aggressively.

The diminishing return in DWU I think was too much though. The real solution lies, I believe, with improving the AI.

In my opinion we need both of these things... diminishing returns for game balance and an AI that is allot better at expanding their economy and empire into empty space.

[arvcran2]

That would be a good way to compensate for the AI not seeking research locations and expanding aggressively.

The diminishing return in DWU I think was too much though. The real solution lies, I believe, with improving the AI.

In my opinion we need both of these things... diminishing returns for game balance and an AI that is allot better at expanding their economy and empire into empty space.

The Civilization series had a complex algorithm that included techs already researched by other empires reducing the cost for each empire that already knew it. I think if there is a diminishing return it should be subtle, start at a certain threshold. I suspect that the bonus gains probably should also do something similar.

What I find unfortunate as it is now, version 1.0.7.9, is that the first wars I fight against other empires are easy even at extreme difficulty. I set the galaxy to unstable to the tilt and I never get declared on. I did also set the Pirates to 'strong' and they were ridiculously strong with end game techs. I suspect that this affects the AI empires more negatively.

One significant problem remaining, is, the AI sending of automated fleets on move and attack orders far beyond their previous home base engagement ranges, especially, when the player has the fleet posture automation on. This reveals that the AI competing empires will suffer when their empires expand beyond fuel ranges.

[Schatten]

Also one more thing, Ship Classes.

Right now its great that you get like 10 different Cruiser Hulls however that all is bulls.... since you can have only one except you want to retrofit every single ship manually.

So also this need complete rework, so the Classes split into different Trees that have nothing to do with the other of same class so you can design your Patrol, Fleet and Heavy Cruisers, Destroyes etc. and they retroft than actually in this direction.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Also one more thing, Ship Classes.

Right now its great that you get like 10 different Cruiser Hulls however that all is bulls.... since you can have only one except you want to retrofit every single ship manually.

So also this need complete rework, so the Classes split into different Trees that have nothing to do with the other of same class so you can design your Patrol, Fleet and Heavy Cruisers, Destroyes etc. and they retroft than actually in this direction.

That is not technically true since you can have one different cruiser per fleet and not needing to manually update them.

[Jorgen_CAB]

That would be a good way to compensate for the AI not seeking research locations and expanding aggressively.

The diminishing return in DWU I think was too much though. The real solution lies, I believe, with improving the AI.

In my opinion we need both of these things... diminishing returns for game balance and an AI that is allot better at expanding their economy and empire into empty space.

The Civilization series had a complex algorithm that included techs already researched by other empires reducing the cost for each empire that already knew it. I think if there is a diminishing return it should be subtle, start at a certain threshold. I suspect that the bonus gains probably should also do something similar.

What I find unfortunate as it is now, version 1.0.7.9, is that the first wars I fight against other empires are easy even at extreme difficulty. I set the galaxy to unstable to the tilt and I never get declared on. I did also set the Pirates to 'strong' and they were ridiculously strong with end game techs. I suspect that this affects the AI empires more negatively.

One significant problem remaining, is, the AI sending of automated fleets on move and attack orders far beyond their previous home base engagement ranges, especially, when the player has the fleet posture automation on. This reveals that the AI competing empires will suffer when their empires expand beyond fuel ranges.

Technology should leak depending on diplomacy relations and the amount of trade between two empires, that would also be an interesting mechanic.

When it comes to wars I always have difficult wars as it is way more important to give the AI a technology advantage than increase the difficulty... I always have AI in stages of Young to Developed and starting at tech level 2-3. This also seem more appropriate as the chance that all civilizations start at pre warp is slim to none from a role play perspective anyway.

[arvcran2]

...
When it comes to wars I always have difficult wars as it is way more important to give the AI a technology advantage than increase the difficulty... I always have AI in stages of Young to Developed and starting at tech level 2-3. This also seem more appropriate as the chance that all civilizations start at pre warp is slim to none from a role play perspective anyway.

I tried this approach albeit only a couple of times. Empires had all T4 techs. But their econ and lack of aggressive exploration combined result in the player, me, being able to catch up.

Galaxy aggressiveness set to max seems to make the empires more passive as well - oddly.

[Jorgen_CAB]

...
When it comes to wars I always have difficult wars as it is way more important to give the AI a technology advantage than increase the difficulty... I always have AI in stages of Young to Developed and starting at tech level 2-3. This also seem more appropriate as the chance that all civilizations start at pre warp is slim to none from a role play perspective anyway.

I tried this approach albeit only a couple of times. Empires had all T4 techs. But their econ and lack of aggressive exploration combined result in the player, me, being able to catch up.

Galaxy aggressiveness set to max seems to make the empires more passive as well - oddly.

Well.. I have done some modding to the AI behaviour so I might have a slightly different experience than you perhaps... but I have found the AI decently good if given a few additional level of technology and development... so make sure they start with a couple of planets too. There was an issue a few patches ago where AI was given low quality planets which made their economy worse not better. I had to literally go in and change the quality of all the extra planets they got at the start of the game... but this should no longer be the case. You might have encountered this without knowing it.

But the AI will need to have some adjustment in their expansion capacity as they are a bit too timid in this area at the moment.

I also play with the slowest tech growth as well, that gives a greater window of catching up in technology area too.

But eventually you will catch up to most AI... but I always find a few AI in very strong positions that will take a fair bit of time to overcome.

[arvcran2]

...

But eventually you will catch up to most AI... but I always find a few AI in very strong positions that will take a fair bit of time to overcome.

The thing is, if players are bumping up the difficulty levels, they should be hitting new challenges to solve.
As it is now the only thing that I perceive, is having to wait longer to get your economy and expansion going.

From a testing point of view, we need to be able to determine if the AI empires are crashing their economies by not 'reserving' funds for development and research.

Based on the assumption that the player's automation is the same automation logic of the AI player we can see what down falls there when automating everything.

There is one thing that I do that most players will not is I play in pause mode a lot!

[Jorgen_CAB]

...

But eventually you will catch up to most AI... but I always find a few AI in very strong positions that will take a fair bit of time to overcome.

The thing is, if players are bumping up the difficulty levels, they should be hitting new challenges to solve.
As it is now the only thing that I perceive, is having to wait longer to get your economy and expansion going.

From a testing point of view, we need to be able to determine if the AI empires are crashing their economies by not 'reserving' funds for development and research.

Based on the assumption that the player's automation is the same automation logic of the AI player we can see what down falls there when automating everything.

There is one thing that I do that most players will not is I play in pause mode a lot!

I also play very slowly and pause allot to...for me it is the journey not the finish-line that is the point. This is probably also why I almost never play any game to the finish line either.

[arvcran2]

...
I also play very slowly and pause allot to...for me it is the journey not the finish-line that is the point. This is probably also why I almost never play any game to the finish line either.

I like to finish unless it is a tedious task. I find once your econ is ~50% of the galaxy you have already won.

What is unfortunate is a missing tech indicator in the victory screen. I understand it is a question of intel on other empires. But it would be good to see the research points spent per anum per empire in the style shown.

Getting back to the challenge aspect and difficulty levels, I'd like to see the game provide enough wits to at least match the player in technology achieved at the tipping point, when, you the player, have surpassed all but one of all the empires near the end of the tech tree. This should happen at the very least at the maximum difficulty level, if not sooner.

...

The other things needing, off the top of my head excluding those that are not, attention, are:

• The colonization errors of loading and unloading populations. Am not seeing colonization with incorrect races any longer though.
• Resource prioritization of distributing super resources. Perhaps some kind of UI hook for the layer to at least influence proper distribution priorities.
• The upcoming use of all sub roles or hull levels by the AI; including proper retrofitting and Fleet Template referencing.
• Completing race dependent victory measurements - quite a few missing.
• Making the AI players more challenging / interesting to play the game at higher difficulty settings
• Better reporting of state expenditures, to see where recent investments have gone.
• Polishing the UI/GUI wrt tooltips blocking view/functionality and being activated when they should be dormant, panels not closing or getting the wrong layer of focus, etc...

I'm still learning the game and the finer details of the policies in terms of how to make proper use of them.

I keep saying it, DW2 is a great game! Am really enjoying it.

[Schatten]

Also one more thing, Ship Classes.

Right now its great that you get like 10 different Cruiser Hulls however that all is bulls.... since you can have only one except you want to retrofit every single ship manually.

So also this need complete rework, so the Classes split into different Trees that have nothing to do with the other of same class so you can design your Patrol, Fleet and Heavy Cruisers, Destroyes etc. and they retroft than actually in this direction.

That is not technically true since you can have one different cruiser per fleet and not needing to manually update them.

Thats wrong, yes you can have 2 or more designs of every hull in Fleet but you need to update them than manually. As soon you let it do automatically or click the *Retrofit Fleet to latest Design* Button all of your Cruisers (or any other Hull) retrofit automatically to the latest Design you made, no matter what Design they had before. Lets say you had Test1 light cruiser with short range weapons and Test 2 with long range, than you update Test 2 with something, it will be than Test 3 and as soon you click to retrofit all your Cruisers upgrade to Test 3, not only Test 2 but also Test 1.
Same for different Hulls like Heavy Cruiser, Fleet Command Cruiser etc, no matter what their design and role is , they always update to the last made Design, even if its a light Cruiser Hull

[arvcran2]

Hey Schatten,

You are correct about needing to continuously update specific design references in Fleet Templates for which exact ship you want in a kind of fleet.

So, if you want to retrofit fleets' fleet ships to specific upgraded design you have to edit the Fleet Template to reference the new target retrofits.
Once that is out of the way any automated fleet retrofit, or manual fleet retrofit will render the correct retrofit targets for all the fleets with that template.

As to non-fleeted ships, running solo, they are subject to being retrofitted by the AI to the latest version of that role. But you can still manual preempt this and choose which retrofit target you want when ordering a manual retrofit. Unfortunately, the AI will retrofit the ship to the 'latest' if the ship is automated anyway. So, you have to be diligent, and always update the design to be the latest of the solo ship you want out there.

[Schatten]

one thing more bad/not working

Troops recruitment on newly conquered Worlds: Usually you cannot recruit Tropps from the Population for a while (dont known exactly, Happineslevel? Assimilation? or fixed amount of time?).
However its same for Robotic Troops and Clone Troops if you build Robotic Troop Foundry or Clone Troop Facility.
You still cannot build them even if they both clearly have nothing to do with the native Population and Happiness etc. You can first build them if you also can recruit Troops from the conquered native Population.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Also one more thing, Ship Classes.

Right now its great that you get like 10 different Cruiser Hulls however that all is bulls.... since you can have only one except you want to retrofit every single ship manually.

So also this need complete rework, so the Classes split into different Trees that have nothing to do with the other of same class so you can design your Patrol, Fleet and Heavy Cruisers, Destroyes etc. and they retroft than actually in this direction.

That is not technically true since you can have one different cruiser per fleet and not needing to manually update them.

Thats wrong, yes you can have 2 or more designs of every hull in Fleet but you need to update them than manually. As soon you let it do automatically or click the *Retrofit Fleet to latest Design* Button all of your Cruisers (or any other Hull) retrofit automatically to the latest Design you made, no matter what Design they had before. Lets say you had Test1 light cruiser with short range weapons and Test 2 with long range, than you update Test 2 with something, it will be than Test 3 and as soon you click to retrofit all your Cruisers upgrade to Test 3, not only Test 2 but also Test 1.
Same for different Hulls like Heavy Cruiser, Fleet Command Cruiser etc, no matter what their design and role is , they always update to the last made Design, even if its a light Cruiser Hull

I'm not wrong... you simply specify which design of each class you want the fleet template to use and they all update to the correct ship version you designed.

[Schatten]

That is not technically true since you can have one different cruiser per fleet and not needing to manually update them.

Thats wrong, yes you can have 2 or more designs of every hull in Fleet but you need to update them than manually. As soon you let it do automatically or click the *Retrofit Fleet to latest Design* Button all of your Cruisers (or any other Hull) retrofit automatically to the latest Design you made, no matter what Design they had before. Lets say you had Test1 light cruiser with short range weapons and Test 2 with long range, than you update Test 2 with something, it will be than Test 3 and as soon you click to retrofit all your Cruisers upgrade to Test 3, not only Test 2 but also Test 1.
Same for different Hulls like Heavy Cruiser, Fleet Command Cruiser etc, no matter what their design and role is , they always update to the last made Design, even if its a light Cruiser Hull

I'm not wrong... you simply specify which design of each class you want the fleet template to use and they all update to the correct ship version you designed.

Thats the Point you cannot. Lets say you want have a Bombardment Destroyer Design and a Flak Destroyer Design for a Invasion Fleet...You can only have one Destroyer Design in your Template and all will refit to this one at next Refit and it will be always the last one you designed.
Same for Designs like Heavy, Fleet or Fast Destroyer....you still can set only the Number of *Destroyers* in your Fleet Template and no matter what for Destroyers you put in, as soon they refit they refit to the latest made design no matter what they were before.

[arvcran2]

Thats wrong, yes you can have 2 or more designs of every hull in Fleet but you need to update them than manually. As soon you let it do automatically or click the *Retrofit Fleet to latest Design* Button all of your Cruisers (or any other Hull) retrofit automatically to the latest Design you made, no matter what Design they had before. Lets say you had Test1 light cruiser with short range weapons and Test 2 with long range, than you update Test 2 with something, it will be than Test 3 and as soon you click to retrofit all your Cruisers upgrade to Test 3, not only Test 2 but also Test 1.
Same for different Hulls like Heavy Cruiser, Fleet Command Cruiser etc, no matter what their design and role is , they always update to the last made Design, even if its a light Cruiser Hull

I'm not wrong... you simply specify which design of each class you want the fleet template to use and they all update to the correct ship version you designed.

Thats the Point you cannot. Lets say you want have a Bombardment Destroyer Design and a Flak Destroyer Design for a Invasion Fleet...You can only have one Destroyer Design in your Template and all will refit to this one at next Refit and it will be always the last one you designed

Same for Designs like Heavy, Fleet or Fast Destroyer....you still can set only the Number of *Destroyers* in your Fleet Template and no matter what for Destroyers you put in, as soon they refit they refit to the latest made design no matter what they were before.

To prevent using the 'latest' design: Left click the button (Latest Active Design for Role) beside the ship role you want to have in the Fleet. This will be used by the retrofit processing.

FleetTemplateProperRetrofits.png (74.47 KiB) Viewed 1762 times

Unfortunately, this does mean you have to update all the templates that use your kind of ship, each time you want to reference a better retrofit (when a better design for that type of ship becomes available). This is better suited to a play style that you are manually making new designs for a kind of ship you want.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I'm not wrong... you simply specify which design of each class you want the fleet template to use and they all update to the correct ship version you designed.

Thats the Point you cannot. Lets say you want have a Bombardment Destroyer Design and a Flak Destroyer Design for a Invasion Fleet...You can only have one Destroyer Design in your Template and all will refit to this one at next Refit and it will be always the last one you designed

Same for Designs like Heavy, Fleet or Fast Destroyer....you still can set only the Number of *Destroyers* in your Fleet Template and no matter what for Destroyers you put in, as soon they refit they refit to the latest made design no matter what they were before.

Sure... you can only have one of each role in a single fleet... but to be frank that is quite enough for now. We know they will make it possible to have multiple of the same eventually. But you can have different destroyers in different fleets, that was what I was trying to say.

So far I have never needed to have two different destroyer hulls in a fleet... the different roles can do that for you quite easily as is. I usually have two or three different ship types in a fleet, sometimes four (excluding tankers and transports). But some people probably want to have it... I would probably use it myself when we have it, from time to time.