[WAD\RESOLVED] Aircraft not-engaging

[wyskass]

I've often been having issues with aircraft not engaging and can't figure out consistent circumstances for it.
Here's an example.
Have it set to Auto engage, radar enabled, Auto distance on the weapons, ROE inherited TIGHT and Auto Altitude and Speed. Range to target is 24 miles, well within AAMRAM range. I've seen them fly right into the target without doing anything.
What am I missing here? Couls it be because another unit has already engaged with missiles, as shown on the way?

Screenshot (497).png (1.73 MiB) Viewed 838 times

[BDukes]

I think so, but can't seem to replicate it. Any chance you could post a save game of what you're screenshot is showing? You can't manually fire?

Thanks!

M

[Tcao]

Bogey has already been engaged by SAM from surface vessel?

[wyskass]

I didn't save that particular state, unfortunately. Will do next time I encounter this situation. And yes, ship based SAMs were on the way there at the time.
Which brings up another question of whether 2 groups set on Auto engage, could/would engage the target independently or is there communication simulated where other won't engage if already engaged? Just to prevent wasting missiles.
Thanks

[BDukes]

I didn't save that particular state, unfortunately. Will do next time I encounter this situation. And yes, ship based SAMs were on the way there at the time.

Ok good move. IIRC it does matter, but not sure if there is just an override somewhere. To be fair to the devs-in most cases you want the ships to fire in more cases than not. If not, then you probably should restrict the ship firing parameters (ROEs and WRAs). I'm also thinking newer settings in the betas kind of reduce the bad-case logic regardless due to their nature (NEZ etc). I'll leave that for you to judge.

M

[Tcao]

there is communication simulated where other won't engage if already engaged. especially during long range engagement

short range WVR is more chaotic,

Note as a human player, you got to closely monitor the situation. because sometime it could create a very annoying result.

for example, a whole group of your F-15s armed with Sparrows are 40nm away from two incoming bogey (Mig-29 WVR). You have both quantity and quality advantage. But your surface vessel 100nm away engaged first, fired a couple long range SAM. that would result your F-15s are flying towards the target with AB on without release their BVR missiles, and distance is quickly close to WVR range while the SAM is still far away. The Mig-29s release a salvo of R-73, shot down some of the F-15s before change into defensive posture.

[BDukes]

there is communication simulated where other won't engage if already engaged. especially during long range engagement

short range WVR is more chaotic,

Note as a human player, you got to closely monitor the situation. because sometime it could create a very annoying result.

for example, a whole group of your F-15s armed with Sparrows are 40nm away from two incoming bogey (Mig-29 WVR). You have both quantity and quality advantage. But your surface vessel 100nm away engaged first, fired a couple long range SAM. that would result your F-15s are flying towards the target with AB on without release their BVR missiles, and distance is quickly close to WVR range while the SAM is still far away. The Mig-29s release a salvo of R-73, shot down some of the F-15s before change into defensive posture.

This one probably worth chasing up. Will build out something, if I don't find something in an old bug report.

M

[wyskass]

there is communication simulated where other won't engage if already engaged. especially during long range engagement

short range WVR is more chaotic,

Note as a human player, you got to closely monitor the situation. because sometime it could create a very annoying result.

for example, a whole group of your F-15s armed with Sparrows are 40nm away from two incoming bogey (Mig-29 WVR). You have both quantity and quality advantage. But your surface vessel 100nm away engaged first, fired a couple long range SAM. that would result your F-15s are flying towards the target with AB on without release their BVR missiles, and distance is quickly close to WVR range while the SAM is still far away. The Mig-29s release a salvo of R-73, shot down some of the F-15s before change into defensive posture.

Yes that does illustrate the risk of this situation

[BDukes]

Just tried using the attached test file and I can manually fire at any point which shrinks the problem down for players.

It will not autofire though which is a problem from the AI side in some cases.

Feel free to move this tech support.

M

[Dimitris]

for example, a whole group of your F-15s armed with Sparrows are 40nm away from two incoming bogey (Mig-29 WVR). You have both quantity and quality advantage. But your surface vessel 100nm away engaged first, fired a couple long range SAM. that would result your F-15s are flying towards the target with AB on without release their BVR missiles, and distance is quickly close to WVR range while the SAM is still far away. The Mig-29s release a salvo of R-73, shot down some of the F-15s before change into defensive posture.

This sounds like a good case for the player to increase the "self-defence range" value in the weapon WRA: https://command.matrixgames.com/?p=3598

Self Defence

Normally, only one friendly unit engages an enemy contact at a time. However, in many cases it would make sense for units to defend themselves when they feel threatened, even when other units are currently firing at the contact. For example, a pair of MiG-23s are closing on a bogey at nearly 2000 knots. Seconds before reaching firing parameters for an AA-7 Apex shot, a SA-5 Gammon site launches a salvo. If the MiG-23s wait for the SA-5s to reach the target before shooting, they will already have merged with the contact and the dogfight begun. To prevent this from happening, it is possible to configure the Self-Defence Range in the WRA. Typically, the self-defence range for the AA-7 is 5nm. This means any MiG-23 that gets within 5nm will launch AA-7s regardless of how many weapons have been allocated to this bogey by other units.

Another example would be a Carrier Battle Group (CVBG) under attack. The escorts do a great job picking off incoming anti-ship missiles with SM-2 SAMs. But once a leaker gets within 5nm of the carrier, the ship will fire a salvo of Sea Sparrows or RAM in self-defence regardless of whether the anti-ship missile currently has SAMs from any of the escorts targeted at it.

[BDukes]

Yep the self-defense WRA did the trick. They fire automatically.

M

[wyskass]

Yep the self-defense WRA did the trick. They fire automatically.

M

Oh.. I never looked at that setting before. What' that all about? Activates when fired upon?

[BDukes]

Yep the self-defense WRA did the trick. They fire automatically.

M

Oh.. I never looked at that setting before. What' that all about? Activates when fired upon?

Looks like a hostile contact whether it's shooting or not...and you've got the other settings configured right to shoot.

Mike

[Tcao]

This sounds like a good case for the player to increase the "self-defence range" value in the weapon WRA: https://command.matrixgames.com/?p=3598

Thx! Never pay attention to that doctrine setting before. Every day learn something new.