Manual/auto SUs and impact on play style?

[MarkShot]

CASE 1: I started as AI SU guy, only setting the SU caps higher or lower depending on the amount of combat the HQ would likely see. The first turn I would zap all to zero so that SUs would bubble up to HiCom, and then usually adjust at the Corp level.

CASE2: Recently, I have been doing all the SU allocation myself at the CU level. It seems that one of the biggest determinants if you can overcome fort levels is having combat engineers (SUs) with your CUs.

So, with CASE 1, I learned to move the HQ in the prior movement phase after combat (keep it within 5 hex range). As I understood it, moving the HQ during the current turn would prevent it from dynamically handing out SUs during battles. So, my HQs remained static during the combat portion of movement.

So, with CASE 2, I have already handed out the SUs. There is nothing for the HQ to do with regards SUs. Thus, I load the HQs up with artillery (SUs). As I understand artillery will participate from a range of 2 hexes and I can move the HQ. Thus, when doing manual SU allocation, I should move the HQ into artillery range before commencing the attack with the CUs.

Am I doing this right? Thanks.

[Wiedrock]

[... ]As I understand artillery will participate from a range of 2 hexes [...]

Source?

[Veterin]

Everyone has their own methods but i prefer control. At the end of turn 1 Axis or start of turn 1 soviets, i sent all SU's to OKH/STAVKA.

I then reallocated them down to Corps (axis) or army HQ (soviets) as needed.

With regards to your comment SU commitment to battles i believe it's 5 hexes, not 2.

[MarkShot]

Everyone has their own methods but i prefer control. At the end of turn 1 Axis or start of turn 1 soviets, i sent all SU's to OKH/STAVKA.

I then reallocated them down to Corps (axis) or army HQ (soviets) as needed.

With regards to your comment SU commitment to battles i believe it's 5 hexes, not 2.

For artillery with the HQ, it can fire 1-2 hexes away.

[Jango32]

There is no distinction between SU types for hex range. If the commanding HQ in the battle is within 5 hex range, then all its SUs have a chance to be committed regardless of whether they're engineers, brigades, regiments, artillery etc.

[Wiedrock]

Everyone has their own methods but i prefer control. At the end of turn 1 Axis or start of turn 1 soviets, i sent all SU's to OKH/STAVKA.

I then reallocated them down to Corps (axis) or army HQ (soviets) as needed.

With regards to your comment SU commitment to battles i believe it's 5 hexes, not 2.

For artillery with the HQ, it can fire 1-2 hexes away.

Source?

[MarkShot]

This is not it exactly, but I am still looking. You can the HQs artillery listed in the battle report. They will also show up in fort reductions. I am still looking:

22.3.4. CoNDUCtING A DELIBERAtE AttACK
Summary : Multiple hexes allowed. Shift-left click and Shiftleft mouse cursor over to select, shift-right click to attack.
Details: Hold the shift button down and left click on a
hex with friendly combat units that will be participating in
the deliberate attack. To add additional combat units from
other hexes to the deliberate attack, to include on-map
artillery combat units firing from two hexes away, move
the mouse cursor (with Shift still down) over the applicable
hexes, which will result in the selection of all additional
units in those hexes

[MarkShot]

I think that is miswritten. It should say artillery SUs firing from 2 hexes away.

[Jango32]

That is strictly referring to the special on-map (CU, not SU) artillery divisions the Soviets get from 1943 onward.

[MarkShot]

I just finished going through WITE-2, but did not find it. I don't have time to run a test. I might be confusing things, but here it is in WITW, the HQs arty pool striking from 2 hexes away.

I will try to conduct a WITE-2 test tonight; time permitting.

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20221117 202033.jpg (80.75 KiB) Viewed 843 times

[MarkShot]

I also understand that arty does not give a big CV boost as it mainly cause disruption.

[Veterin]

Have a read through 23.6 in the manual. The range is 5 hexes for a support unit (including a SU Art) in a HQ joining battle.

The 2 hexes your referring to is for Soviet artillery divisions only which are an on-map unit.

[MarkShot]

23.4.3

...
Unlike a hasty attack, support units can be committed
from eligible headquarters units that have moved during
the current turn. In addition, Artillery combat units
that have sufficient movement points remaining may
participate in a deliberate attack from two hexes away
from the defending unit. The artillery combat unit must be
selected just as any unit would be selected to add into a
deliberate attack.
...

But unlike other support units which are allocated to CUs and then the attack either via direct or reserve; I believe the arty SU with HQ is allocated directly. Not, being limited by the rule of 3 slots per div. (I wrote this.) And it seems HQs can always move during a deliberate attack. So, then it would seem you cannot outpace them with dynamic SU allocation if you use deliberate attacks. This all gets more mind blowing each time I read!!!

[MarkShot]

I am back reading WITW (yes, I read the manual concurently for insights).

In some case, it seems "combat unit" will be used interchangeably with "support unit"; maybe because some are map convertible. See the section below. In red, I think this really means SU. Okay, "multi-role" is the right term.

7.4. SuPPoRt uNItS
Support units are single purpose independent battalions,
brigades and regiments of various types, to include
artillery, howitzer, mortar, rocket, anti-tank, anti-aircraft,
ski, engineer, sapper, tank, tank destroyer, construction,
and labor groups. with the exception of construction
battalions, which can be automatically detached to repair
rail lines, support units will not appear on the map, but
will be attached to headquarters and certain combat
units and will be listed in the detail window of the unit
to which they are attached.

[Jango32]

5 hex range from the HQ (0-49 purple, 6th Army HQ that I moved to be in range for SU commitment), artillery joined.

arty_range.png (876.57 KiB) Viewed 828 times

[MarkShot]

Fill up the 3 div slots for everyone who is going to fight with non-arty. Load up the command HQ with arty and be within 2 hexes and do a deliberate attack. See what shows up in the report, it will try later. I am busy doing my post-mortem on a WITW battle and don't want to shut down.

[Jango32]

Same thing, 5 hex range.

arty_hq_range.png (699.19 KiB) Viewed 815 times

[Jango32]

I've added 2 more artillery SUs to the HQ, same result:

arty_hq_range_2.png (1.04 MiB) Viewed 811 times

[MarkShot]

Perhaps I am not being understood. I will try it as I understand it and see what I get.

[Jango32]

Moved it up.

arty_hq_range_3.png (869.23 KiB) Viewed 805 times