How to use TALDs from the F14 Tomcats

[bladesinger79]

I want to launch as many of these as possible so that the enemy ADA uses up their missiles, paving a way for my SLAMS, HARMS, and Tomahawks to get through and raise havoc. The enemy has over a dozen ADA batteries surrounding the objective. Normally I would just launch Tomahawks and start there. There are two problems:
#1, the enemy has SA-20 missiles that reaches out to 90nm. This leads to...
#2, I can't get any Sentry's close enough to change the target ambiguity to a solid lock without getting in range of SAMs.

So, do I send in the Tomcats, wait for SAMs to be fired at them, then launch the drones? Is there another way? Or will this simply not work the way I want?

[DmitriyBlade]

Assign them to SEAD patrol mission,
they automatically fire on SAM(according to WRA, you can decrease launch range for longer loiter on target),
if you need f-14 closer to SAMs, simply lower attitude according LOS tool
added a few patches ago

[maverick3320]

I believe you don't need to "lock on" to anything with TALDs. Simply use CNTRL+F1 to fire them down a bearing near the SAMs.

Then again, I've never once been able to get enemy SAMs to fire at TALDs.

[Gunner98]

Older SAMs are fooled but I doubt an SA-10/20 would bother, they can see through it in most cases unless your jamming is over the top perhaps.

B

[bladesinger79]

I decided to try a different tactic. Turns out the TALDs have a range of 40nm and a minimum launch altitude of 10,000 feet. With those SA-20s, I would have to dodge and evade SAMs for fifty miles or more. Can't throw away lives and platforms like that. I'm doing too well in the scenario to take casualties now.

I'll figure it out and post the results in the AAR section.

[Mickeys91]

As other said TLADS are not going to do well against a system like SA20 the enemy in RL would be able to see right past it most likely. But yes Jamming (if possible) its your best bet to get within range and fire off the TALDs but with such a small window the SA20 is going to be firing at you by than by the time you get the F14 within range. Also, use terrain to your advantage and pop up fire but if youre on flatland not too much you can do.

Also what is the SA20 WRA set at? is it firing at max range at anything you shoot or fly into its threat circle?

[Craigkn]

What about newer models like MALD and MALD-J? The whole point of MALD is to mimic the radar returns of a range of aircraft, but in my (limited) testing, they don't seem to really work like that. The MALD-J does add an EW component, however.

[Blast33]

If you put your adversary in auto detect side, it will declare them hostile right away and engage them more like you want them to.
Ohterwise you can work with your WRA settings what your adversary will do with unidentified flying objects like the MALDs

[SeaQueen]

It depends partially on the RCS of the aircraft.

MALD's RCS in the tracking band is -2 dbsm to 1.10dbsm. Meanwhile a Strike Eagle, for example, has an RCS in the same band between 7.6 dbsm and 9.9dbsm. That means that a given radar will detect the F-15E at ~1.7 times the range at which it would detect the MALD. This means you need to plan accordingly and use the Strike Eagles in combination with jamming, or maybe low-altitude, in order to enhance the effectiveness of the MALDs. I want them to shoot at the MALDs, not the Strike Eagles, so if I'm going to have them ingress on the same point, I want to make sure I can delay the detection of the Strike Eagle to at least the same time as the MALD. To really get good with MALDs, you want to have a good sense of when the radar you're targeting is going to detect them.

What about newer models like MALD and MALD-J? The whole point of MALD is to mimic the radar returns of a range of aircraft, but in my (limited) testing, they don't seem to really work like that. The MALD-J does add an EW component, however.

[BDukes]

Tinkering with this a bit.

First, the SEAD Patrol works great. The catch is a couple of key things.

1) You're going to want to narrow the SEAD Patrol Box. The MALDs will fire at range, and if you have a huge box, you might actually put them out of the engagement range of the SAM. This is more likely with certain WRA settings on the SAM.

2)Human players will not really be visually fooled by this ever. The pattern is discernable, however, if the SAM relies on its own radar in the terminal phase, you're still going to get the effect you're looking for (reducing the % your planes or missiles get whacked). This depends on you putting them in the right place.

3)Mald-Js jam. This makes things much easier, provided they jam the right bands. At least, that is my experience so far!

I'm a huge fan of the fixes that have been implemented lately. They make sense and are a better game experience. That being said, I need to practice and adjust my own scenarios to the new paradigms. I won't make demands on scenario editors as they owe me nothing but anybody with a huge library should consider taking a look at all this once Tiny is out. My suggestion to help with the astronomical amount of work is to ask the benefactors of your fine work to help. Good ones will.

Mike

[Blast33]

Have you also seen this YouTube vid?
C: MO - Using decoys for SEAD and DEAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c10b7boXWQk

[BDukes]

Have you also seen this YouTube vid?
C: MO - Using decoys for SEAD and DEAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c10b7boXWQk

Yeah it is a great video. If anything, it demonstrates how to figure stuff out.

M

[Craigkn]

A problem with the video is he does not explain how you deal with the OPFOR not being able to decide the side of the drones - they stay yellow. In the first run-through, he manually flags them as hostile, but in other views, they are clearly still yellow, but are engaged. He must have a exclusion zone set up, which is how I deal with this - but for a novice, it turns into an issue.

Another issue is MALD-J's. They go dumb when the firing unit lands, despite the MALD-J supporting CEC. I have a E-2D in range, which I expected to be able to guide the MALD-J's onwards, but the drones all sit and spin in one location. This example was a LRASM and MALD-J strike against a Chinese CVBG via a strike mission, targeting all ordinance towards the CV. Everything fired and the F/A-18's all queued to land, then the MALD-J's lost datalink and sit and spinned as show.

Link 16 JTDIS, which both the MALD-J and E-2D have, has a 600nm range, and in this case, the flight of MALD-J's are about 170nm from the E-2D. This should work, but it seems to fail.

This could very well be operator error, but its a bit of a problem, as I could run into fuel issues if I kept the F/A-18 up for the full duration of the strike.

[thewood1]

The ID thing should also be set by the designer. Depending on real-world ROE, there should be a perimeter around the SAM site that defines all non-IDed units as hostile. Generally speaking, most civilian aircraft should be squawking at worst. At best, if hostilities are imminent, the designer should have a no-nav zone set for the civilian side as a NOTAM or equivalent. Any thing in the perimeter should be hostile or at least unfriendly.

Mistakes still happen, but those are pretty standard rules and procuedures.