True troop/Rarity??

[Adamo]

Can someone explain what this option in the preferences does exactly? I've read the manual several times and I'm very confused about what 'True Troop' does and what 'Rarity' does.

Please help!

[Goblin]

True troop adjusts your units cost up or down from the base cost dependant upon their experience. This will help balance a battle. Thus a unit with a base cost of 100 might cost 110 at 85 experience, and 90 at 65 experience.

Rarity will make certain items unavailable based on a random check against its rarity rating. The problem with this is that it will often just make stupid decisions about things. For instance, you may get a para company with one squad of paras, plus the normal MG's and mortar and such, because it checked and decided they were unavailable after the first unit. Or you get an entire company of paratroops with no .30 cal MGs, because the comp decided they were 'rare'. That is why most guys play with True Troop ON/Rarity OFF.

Goblin

[KG Erwin]

Goblin's right. If you're playing against the computer, then true troop on/rarity off is the way to go. The 8.2 patch will fix the AI selections, and make the opposing force balance more realistic. Now, for playing against another human in a set-piece battle, THIS is where rarity "on" really pays dividends. This is the feature that prevents a human PBEM opponent from loading up on the best toys his OOB has to offer. This forces the players to choose more forces that were actually available, and helps maintain balance in human vs human play.

[Goblin]

I disagree on its usefulness even then. I simply will end a game with a person who does that, and not play him again (although we would have discussed it beforehand to avoid it). I just really hate when you only get one squad of paras, or something equally ridiculous. Sometimes you can buy 20 heavy, rare tanks, and then get no .50 cal MG's or something stupid because of an odd random roll...[:@]

Goblin

[KG Erwin]

Actually, Goblin, replace the word "really" in my previous post to "allegedly pays dividends". I don't use the rarity feature at all, but I do turn true troop cost "on".

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Actually, Goblin, replace the word "really" in my previous post to "allegedly pays dividends". I don't use the rarity feature at all, but I do turn true troop cost "on".

Me too. I think having it on definately helps to balance play...

Then the comp isn't paying 100 each for a tank with a crew experience level of 50.[X(][:D]


Goblin

[Gvaihir]

Hi comarades, this is interesting...

I always play with rarity on... I was quite surprized when I saw Goblin nad KG make such remarks...

What's not to understand... For example:

You're fighting a late '44 battle - medium map bla bla... And you're p*** off because you can't buy the Konig tigers or the JS II or M4A3HVSS8. Or as Goblin said : .50 cal or paras and other units... C'mon realize this ... On that part of the fornt the reinforcements were/are rare and you can't have those things you would like to order. So???

The comp didn't shut down the entire oob and gave you a map with your AO unit and two mule packs! This is IMO very realistic. The fronts streched for hundreds and thousands of miles so Goblin - you couldn't have .50 cals all over the place! Right?


Gvaihir

[Goblin]

So, in almost every circumstance, troops were missing basic equipment? Even fresh units sent into a fight? Hmmm. No .30 cals or bazookas in my brand new infantry company? Fight anyways. Want to play a Sherman 76 company? Oops, not available. But thats what I want to play. Sorry, the computer says you cannot play what you want to play...

When I play, I don't get issued troops. I buy the force I want to play with, that simple. Getting a para company with 1 squad of paras is just plain not fun. Or no .30 cal MG's?!? Rarity is just ridiculous to me, but fun for others, I suppose.

Also when I play, I do not buy entire companies of King Tigers. Personal choice for me. I enforce my own 'rarity' on myself. Much more fun to have a company of Paratroops with everyone present, and not buy 30 Pershing tanks.


Goblin

[VikingNo2]

I have had similar problem with rarity, had a battle where I could by infantry[&:] So I do what Goblin does and try to buy a good mix and don't get to wild. If I play someone with a wild mix so be it I just try to overcome it, if its a gamey mix then I just chose not to play them very often. Which is very hard because I would play everyone if i had the time[8D]

[KG Erwin]

Well, the difference for me is, I play exclusively against the AI, and I love the long campaigns. As a matter of course, I would assume that my force at the beginning of the campaign would be at historical TOE levels. Same goes for my computer opponent.
This is why I turn rarity "off", but maintain true troop cost "on". The new OOBs are designed for rarity to be "on", but, after the AI purchase routine was explained to me, I still believe that vs the AI you'll get a better mix if you turn it "off".
However, don't ask me to explain the AI purchase routine to you--one of the other team members can do this better than I.

[VikingNo2]

Hey KG Erwin if you would like next time you do a long campaign I will purchase and deploy the other side for you and you can let the computer play them just an offer[;)]

[KG Erwin]

Viking, that's a tempting offer, but you already know my tactical SOP. I'll let you know when I'm willing to deal with the devil. [;)]
"I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees..." I know your reputation. [&o]

[arethusa]

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2
I have had similar problem with rarity, had a battle where I could by infantry[&:] So I do what Goblin does and try to buy a good mix and don't get to wild. If I play someone with a wild mix so be it I just try to overcome it, if its a gamey mix then I just chose not to play them very often. Which is very hard because I would play everyone if i had the time[8D]

Would you or Goblin consider it gamey to have 4 Sturmtigers then? It's not a lot of units but they pack such a whollop to troops and towed weapons that they can sure influence a game. I was on the receiving end of it once and the first couple of shots by Sturmtigers was the beginning of my units retreating out of control, even abandoning their armour.

Most wouldn't consider 4 Sturmtigers gamey but I came across a book on WWII armour a couple of months ago and learned that there were only 12 of them made - ever! And those were specifically built for the Eastern front, Stalingrad I think it was. The battle was over before they ever got used and only 8 of them ever got near combat, all against the advancing Russians. They were split up into 3 squads of 4 tanks each.

Even more about them, they didn't actually fire an artillery shell but they used a sort of launcher for depth charges. The launchers had been made for surface ships but most of the ships didn't exist anymore (or weren't going out again) by the time the launchers were ready so Hitler ordered them converted over to using a Tiger chassis as something big enough to carry them.

The depth charges were loaded using a kind of crane attached to the back of the unit (it can be seen in the v7.1 OOB). It took 10 minutes to reload after each shot! I'm not sure but I think reloading probably involved the crew getting outside the vehicle to use the crane. Not something one would like to do in close combat. [X(] Because of the size of the charges and the difficulty in loading, (probably couldn't carry them inside the tank) they were always accompanied by an ammo schlepper from which the shells were taken.

In other words, the Sturmtigers in historical fact; would only have been used in an assault role against fortifications. Their ground weight and therefore speed and manoeuverability was worse than the Elephants and Ferdinands and they couldn't be reloaded unless heavily protected. To be realistic, they should only be available in assault setups and they should only be allowed to fire perhaps once every 3 turns or more. The game allows them in all kinds of scenarios but historically, they shouldn't be allowed except in very limited situations and even then, their ROF should be reduced drastically.

[VikingNo2]

Thats a personal preference, but no I wouldn't think its gamey. Goblin speaks for himself even when we don't want him to[8|]

Gamey is a very difficult term to define. An over abunance if AA guns in a game without Air is more gamey to me than a couple of stumtigers just my opinion. Using a units ability that is a little out of wack in mass to exploit a game flaw. Like 20 bazookas riding 20 M8 greyhounds.

[VikingNo2]

KG I think you missed what I was trying to say, I was just offering to buy and deploy the computers forces the AI would play it. It may and some spice to your campains. I'm thinking about making scenarios I just have to figure out how[8D]

[Goblin]

4 sturmtigers is gamey if your opponent thinks it is. I wouldn't like it, or use 4 of them. Either way, with rarity ON, you might be forbidden to buy any PzIV's, and allowed to by a battalion of Sturmtigers. Thats why it sucks, IMO. WAY too random.

Goblin

[VikingNo2]

See I told you a Goblin speaks for himself[;)]

[Goblin]

I would be Denise Richard's puppet and say whatever she wanted me too...[:'(][X(][;)]

[VikingNo2]

Selam Hayek fan myself [:D]

[Goblin]

Oh yeah! Bite marks all the way.


Goblin[:D]