Finland can take hexes lost in Winter War at peace

[PanzerMike]

Finland joins the Axis on the turn March 28, 1941. In the report the message is somehow produced twice. Why?
In any case, the Soviets retain what they gained after the Winter War.

However, on the next turn (April 11, 1941), the Finns can take back the hexes they lost and move to their old border. It is still peace though. Stalin will not stand for that!

This looks like a bug. And an old bug at that:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7#p4594497

[Nirosi]

Yep! It is a known bug. In the meantime, Axis players usually restraint themselves from crossing the line where the border should be (even if advancing right to the border will actually convert hexes just across that border).

[generalfdog]

Yes it is a thing as the Axis I just don't move the fins until they are at war. alternatively USSR can prevent it by moving units in to the occupied areas which they would have had to do to keep it anyways. On a related topic wouldn't it be cool if you could actually fight the winter war?

[PanzerMike]

The winter war is notoriously difficult to simulate in wargames. On paper the Finns should have have been brushed aside by the huge number of Russian divisions attacking, but the poor command, poor weather and difficult terrain prevented the Finns from collapsing immediately and holding out for months inflicting huge casualties. Very hard to get right in a game like Warplan. Same for an operation like Weserubung (German invasion of Norway).

[AlvaroSousa]

It's a bug I have tried to fix but can't find why it still does it.

[PanzerMike]

Argh

[ncc1701e]

This is surely linked with the bug that erase Coastal Defense when you are neutral.

[ncc1701e]

It's a bug I have tried to fix but can't find why it still does it.

Alvaro, why don’t you change the borders? I know you don’t want to have Soviet partisans generated in Finland. But, in every wargame I have played on eastern front, Finland is always attacking after Germany.

For me the solution is to:
1. At the end of the Winter War, change the hexes ownership to USSR and also the borders of USSR to include this part of Finland,
2. Start a new event, at this stage, that will monitor when Germany declares war to USSR,
3. Once this event is firing, the next turn, this event will revert the borders back to the old Finnish borders and change the hexes ownership to Finland but occupied by USSR.

This way Finland will free its countries without a risk of Soviet partisans.

[ncc1701e]

This event to change the old Finnish borders before Finnish attack could also be linked to the status of Kaunas if it is in Axis hands or not.

[PanzerMike]

Wasn't this event in an older version??

[ncc1701e]

Don’t think so. Border was never changed.

[AlvaroSousa]

I'd have to change it to a complete annex to prevent this.

[ncc1701e]

Same thing than what you are doing for Bessarabia.

[AlvaroSousa]

Yea but then finns will have partisans because it will be USSR territory

[ncc1701e]

Yea but then finns will have partisans because it will be USSR territory

No, as I said, with another event to create that will be triggered when Germany declares war to USSR or when Kaunas is captured by Axis, you do exactly the contrary and Finland goes back to their old borders.

[ncc1701e]

But, this will triggered another problem. $Annex command will automatically move all the Soviet units within the Finland borders. This is not a good idea finally...

[ncc1701e]

By the way, will it be solved by WP2 engine?

[stjeand]

Easy fix would be to put Russian forts on the border that that have 0 strength and they disappear the turn after war is declared.

Yes this delays the Finnish invasion by a turn but they did not immediately attack when Russia was invaded.

If Finland decides to attack early they just lose 1 MP and some efficiency but nothing that would cripple them.

[AlvaroSousa]

By the way, will it be solved by WP2 engine?

Yea it will. There are so many nuances to the WW2 political situation that it is hard to modify for.

WP2 data structure is much easier to manage and I have a blueprint of what to expect.

[ncc1701e]

Cool, hoping to see neutral vs neutral outside of any alliance.