Feedback and information during turn resolution

[nukkxx5058]

Hi, first let me say that the game is amazing ! I've been a fan of the series since the very first title, Flashpoint Germany, back in 2005. And Red Storm was a great evolution, and so Southern Storm certainly is !

I just want to make a remark: feed back and information during turn resolution seem incomplete. I can see 2 problems:

1) Quite often I see explosions on the map but I have no idea who's firing. Is it the enemy ? My own troops, which unit ? This occurs mainly during arty barages or are they air strikes ? It's not always, but from time to time.
2) Also, sometimes during combat resolution, the pop-up window with detailed information about the kills is not displaying so I can see the explosion animation which means that I lost a subunit but I don't receive the exact information (ie the pop up window) on screen about who it was (A Bradley ? Other?)

I'm confident that these small youth issues will soon be fixed. Or if it's because I missed something, thanks for explaining it to me.

[WildCatNL]

Wrt 2. The radio log (F7) shows critical events, with the most recent at the top. It should tell you who lost a subunit or received incoming fire.

William

[nukkxx5058]

Well, as far as I remember, it's not always in it. Quite often I struggled to find the info, and sometimes, I couldn't at all.

But generally speaking, in Red Storm all these info were displayed on map in pop-ups during the turn resolution. I hope it soon will be the cate with Southern Storm. Because sometimes pop-ups do not show up at all, and sometime it's the same with battle animation not showing who's the unit initiating fire.

[nukkxx5058]

One example among others, I just has an enemy strike with Mig-23 and apparently they were casualties among my units but the information about lost units won't appear on-map, nor on the log. Impossible to know which sub-units were destroyed.
They are plenty of cases where this information is missing. Mostly during arty barrage. Sometime I can't even know if it friendly of enemy fire. And I'm talking about tutorial3 here. So on a larger scale scenario, I guess the lack of information will be even more problematic.
And very often, as already said, the pop-up with combat result won't show-up.
The information about combat result was much better in Red Storm. Hope this will be fixed soon.

[CapnDarwin]

There is something going on with the combat hints and we are investigating. Hopefully, we can get this worked out for the January update.

[nukkxx5058]

Thank you for this answer. Cool that you agree there's something wrong. I'm now sure it will be fixed Excellent. Thx

[IronMikeGolf]

I have to ask, how does this affect your decision making for your next orders phase?

[nukkxx5058]

I have to ask, how does this affect your decision making for your next orders phase?

Personally I don't think it does affect it. It's just that during turn resolution you don't have all the battle feedback popping-up on the map as it should.

[IronMikeGolf]

I have to ask, how does this affect your decision making for your next orders phase?

Personally I don't think it does affect it. It's just that during turn resolution you don't have all the battle feedback popping-up on the map as it should.

Thank you.

Understand, that is "below the fold". On the one hand, top priority for me is info relevant to decision making during the fight. Other info? That can be deferred to after the fight and your After Action Review.

On the other hand, there is exposing enough info that you, as the Player, have confidence enough in the underlying simulation that you don't second guess it at every moment.

On the gripping hand, I am OK with a certain level of doubt. It's a source of friction the real warfighters have to deal with.

Let me give you a peek at how that worked back then on the ground.

I was a Company level Bradley Master Gunner. That meant I was the "gunner" in the Commander's track. Air quotes because my job wasn't to shoot. It was to track the battle in the company sector. The Boss was on the Battalion Command Net and I was on the Company Net. I had my own map board (lap sized, a turret is small. I rigged up a Bde Sector map board with overlays in the back of the track) and an enemy OB. As platoons reported stuff, I scribbled on my map board and checked off enemy casualties, so we had a read on enemy combat strength. The CO would relay fire support requests to our Company FO. If he wasn't busy. If he was, I'd flip frequency on my radio (2 radios in commander's vehicles) and relay. Pro Tip: be sure to BBQ with the FOs and mortar squad leaders.

All of this detail is invisible to a real Bn or higher Command Post. But you get this in game. Not because it's info available to higher level HQs, but to give you confidence.

Real world? As you go up the chain of command, things get aggregated and summarized. Does Battalion get platoon reports? Nope. And the Company level reports are basically "We're OK", "We're having some trouble", "I might not be able to accomplish my mission", and "I am combat ineffective".

You, as a Player have tons more information, both quantity and quality, that a real Commander and Staff has available, absent an incredible amount of radio traffic that invites hundreds of artillery rounds to impact on your pointed little head. This is an era of voice FM comms and the strongest transmitter wins when more than on station is trying to send a report. On when in contact, you just send it blind, meaning you don't take the time to ask and await a response that someone received your message. You need to get back to fighting. So, many messages get sent and lost.

I am not throwing a rock at you, nukkxx. I am trying to manage expectations. I'll stress it again, you have LOT more info as a Player, in detail, timeliness, and accuracy, than a human commander has. And we don't model friendly fog of war.

[blackcloud6]

I'll stress it again, you have LOT more info as a Player, in detail, timeliness, and accuracy, than a human commander has.

Spot on. I've always said, if you want a wargame to be realistic as the player as a company commander, you need to stay awake for 48 hours before playing, play when it is either very cold or very hot outside, or better yet, raining. Get really filthy and don't bathe. Eat poor food that is cold, if you eat at all. Sit in the woods where you can't see anything. Cut a small vision slight in a trash can and then place it over your head. You can only view your computer through the small slit and plan on a folded-up map with an alcohol pen that smears. Have your spouse constantly pound on the trash can and have a friend call you every ten minutes and yell at you: "SITREP!" "SITREP!" Now try to make decisions.

(I was a BFV Mech Infantry Company Commander 1987-88.)

[cbelva]

I'll stress it again, you have LOT more info as a Player, in detail, timeliness, and accuracy, than a human commander has.

Spot on. I've always said, if you want a wargame to be realistic as the player as a company commander, you need to stay awake for 48 hours before playing, play when it is either very cold or very hot outside, or better yet, raining. Get really filthy and don't bathe. Eat poor food that is cold, if you eat at all. Sit in the woods where you can't see anything. Cut a small vision slight in a trash can and then place it over your head. You can only view your computer through the small slit and plan on a folded-up map with an alcohol pen that smears. Have your spouse constantly pound on the trash can and have a friend call you every ten minutes and yell at you: "SITREP!" "SITREP!" Now try to make decisions.

(I was a BFV Mech Infantry Company Commander 1987-88.)

Stop it, you bring back too many bad memories .

One area I would like to see used more, especially as we develop more multiplayer capabilities, is the use of the TOC screens. Have the commanders of a side only be able to see the TOC screens and nothing else. There is enough information on those screens for a player to see only those screens and still fight the battle without ever looking at the map. Of course, he would have to have someone input his orders for this to work. It would be a great tool to run a CPX.

If you have two monitors, open the Map Overlay in the OPS section and the Enemy SITREP map in the Intel section and watch the battle unfold on those two maps instead of the game map. It will give you a whole new appreciation of the game. In fact, don't you wish that contacts that disappear on the game map would remain on the map for a period of time. They do on the Enemy SITREP map. Last known contacts will remain on the map for a period of time. That is not a bug, but a feature. I use that map to plan arty strikes on enemy locations behind the enemy. HInt--You can toggle the large NATO icons on and off to see locations underneath them.

[nukkxx5058]

I just would like that the battle feedback (hints / pop up) to be exactly at the level it was in Red Storm.
I'm annoyed when I see arty barrage and no idea if it's friendly or enemy fire. I'm annoys me when I have to look in the log to see my casualties and/or various other information.

In fact, most of the info is already in the log. It just doesn't pop-up on screen during the turn resolution as it was in Red Storm. So my suggestion, if the devs fix the issue accordingly, won't give you any god-eye over the battle field but just a more convenient and friendly way to see what's going on.

Just like it was in Red storm, please !