Mining base questions

[rgbunicorn]

I have a few questions.

It looks like early game you want to be selective about which mining bases you grab so you get the key resources you need.

However, not sure about mid-game.

1. In the mid-game should I basically be putting mining bases everywhere?
2. Do extra resources translate into cash flow or is just basically wasted once you have enough?
3. Is it ok to have mining base construction on auto in the mid-game or will the AI build too many?

[AKicebear]

Great questions that I'd like others thoughts on as well.

[76mm]

Me too. I've been building these things like crazy...hopefully that's not a screw up!

[100thMonkey]

The "Annual Bonus Income" section of the economy tab shows that I'm currently getting 2,841 credits for trading resources (screenshot below). So you do get credits from resources, as long as you trade with some other empire or independent colony. But I don't know if you can ever get significant amount of revenues from trading resources.

[EDIT: changed the picture]

Resource trading.png (132.06 KiB) Viewed 1382 times

As a general principle, I believe that as long as the private sector finances are in good shape, building more mining stations is always good. Especially building in neutral territory, before the other empires do. The only (not significant to me) negative effect I could see is, IF resource trading works the same in DW2 as in DW:U, a greater abundance of a given resource would lower its price, and therefore the revenues you might get from trading it.

But for me, trading is not the main reason to build mining stations. I build mining stations to:

- Minimize the chances of not being able to build something because of a lack of certain construction resource
- Maximize the benefits of luxury resources for my colonies (growth, development, etc.)
- Stop other empires from building a mining station somewhere before I do.

[rgbunicorn]

The "Annual Bonus Income" section of the economy tab shows that I'm currently getting 2,841 credits for trading resources (screenshot below). So you do get credits from resources, as long as you trade with some other empire or independent colony. But I don't know if you can ever get significant amount of revenues from trading resources.


Trade bonuses.png


As a general principle, I believe that as long as the private sector finances are in good shape, building more mining stations is always good. Especially building in neutral territory, before the other empires do. The only (not significant to me) negative effect I could see is, IF resource trading works the same in DW2 as in DW:U, a greater abundance of a given resource would lower its price, and therefore the revenues you might get from trading it.

But for me, trading is not the main reason to build mining stations. I build mining stations to:

- Minimize the chances of not being able to build something because of a lack of certain construction resource
- Maximizing the benefits of luxury resources for my colonies (growth, development, etc.)
- Stopping other empires from building a mining station somewhere before I do.

Cool thanks!

[StormingKiwi]

The "Annual Bonus Income" section of the economy tab shows that I'm currently getting 2,841 credits for trading resources (screenshot below). So you do get credits from resources, as long as you trade with some other empire or independent colony. But I don't know if you can ever get significant amount of revenues from trading resources.


Trade bonuses.png

I've seen that number (or rather the expenses one, i.e. that number for one trade party) up to 480,000, every year. I'm not sure if that trading was genuinely needed - I had a problem where the mining rate for my construction resources was far outstripped by demand, but many of my mining stations had full stockpiles of particular construction resources my spaceports were importing.

[100thMonkey]

I've seen that number (or rather the expenses one, i.e. that number for one trade party) up to 480,000, every year. I'm not sure if that trading was genuinely needed - I had a problem where the mining rate for my construction resources was far outstripped by demand, but many of my mining stations had full stockpiles of particular construction resources my spaceports were importing.

If I understand you correctly, you were paying 480,000 to get resources. So that means that trade can involved big amounts of credits. Does that mean that one could get such amount if revenues from trading? Maybe, but I presume that in your case, you were trading with many empires. So that 480,000 would have been split among them. But it does suggests that it might be possible to get good revenues from trading.

You also mention that your mining stations had full construction resources. But construction resources are just one part of the equation. The interface might lead you to conclude that they're the only ones that matter, but it's not the case. Yes, they're very important, essential in fact, and getting those you need should be your priority. But your citizens want luxury resources. So I assume that your trade deficit was because your empire was importing a lot of luxury resources.

In my games, once my empire's construction resources needs are met, I immediately change the filter in "Resources" to "Luxury Resources" and start building mining stations on planets with luxury resources as if there was no tomorrow!

[Nightskies]

Trading is next to pointless if your empire is economically dominant. If you're the underdog in a galaxy of great empires, however... trading can be a mighty source of income. If your little empire can net some mining rights and grab a bunch of uncommon and rare resources out from underneath the big dogs and establish trade agreements, they will gobble up what you have to offer. A little black operations against nonthreatening empires for the best resource stations won't hurt either. That can rival your tax income, especially if your borders are small.

To answer the OP, it is wasteful to grab everything you can, but that's only going to be relevant in the early stages of the game before you become the giant in the playground. If your economy is strong, you can easily afford to grab up all the luxuries and rare construction resources. However, judicious grabbing of resources will be a boon for your civilian economy- if trading is irrelevant, you won't need much to supply your shipyards so long as you build consistently instead of in bursts. Technology advancements and mining station/freighter upgrades will likely make up for the expanded needs as the empire grows.

The typical choke resources are Polymers, Aculon, and Hexodorium, as they are what your ship's hulls are built out of. Kaasian and Osalia are potential choke resources for late game weapons. Carbonite, Silicon and Tyderios are notable needs for core components, but you don't need a lot. You can never have too much Caslon.

The mining tab is the way to determine if you need more of any particular resource. Advance knowledge of what resources your weapons and components of choice will be can point you to where you should grab ahead of time if you have the gumption for it (the information is in the Galactopedia). Try to grab as much variety of luxury resources as possible, occasionally grabbing what the mining tab suggests you should get more of- there are a bunch of luxury resources that the galaxy will easily be overstocked on, and it doesn't hurt to let your civilians buy it from friendly empires- you don't get paid for them using your own luxuries anyway. Only splurge on excess luxuries if you're trying to make serious money from trading.

Or if you can afford to be sloppy. Which, you probably can. Its a relatively small expense, and a civilian one, at that.

[100thMonkey]

I guess I should have mentioned that I'm still playing at normal difficulty (still many things I don't yet fully understand), so I can afford to be "sloppy" with mining. When playing at higher difficulties (which I intend to try in my next game), more thoughtful mining might be required...

[StormingKiwi]

I've seen that number (or rather the expenses one, i.e. that number for one trade party) up to 480,000, every year. I'm not sure if that trading was genuinely needed - I had a problem where the mining rate for my construction resources was far outstripped by demand, but many of my mining stations had full stockpiles of particular construction resources my spaceports were importing.

If I understand you correctly, you were paying 480,000 to get resources. So that means that trade can involved big amounts of credits. Does that mean that one could get such amount if revenues from trading? Maybe, but I presume that in your case, you were trading with many empires. So that 480,000 would have been split among them. But it does suggests that it might be possible to get good revenues from trading.

You also mention that your mining stations had full construction resources. But construction resources are just one part of the equation. The interface might lead you to conclude that they're the only ones that matter, but it's not the case. Yes, they're very important, essential in fact, and getting those you need should be your priority. But your citizens want luxury resources. So I assume that your trade deficit was because your empire was importing a lot of luxury resources.

In my games, once my empire's construction resources needs are met, I immediately change the filter in "Resources" to "Luxury Resources" and start building mining stations on planets with luxury resources as if there was no tomorrow!

Considering I only had one trade partner, I can definitively state that the 480,000 credit sum I was paying was not divided among multiple. It was all being earned by a single trade partner.

Considering I did not have a shortage of any luxury resources, I can definitively state that it was construction resources that were being purchased and not luxury resources.

Hope this clears up those two misconceptions for you.

[100thMonkey]

Yep! Misconceptions cleared!

Considering I only had one trade partner, I can definitively state that the 480,000 credit sum I was paying was not divided among multiple. It was all being earned by a single trade partner.

Interesting. So with the right set of circumstances, resource trading revenues can be quite significant! Is it the only time you've seen such a big amount for resource trading with a single partner (either as revenues or expenses), or do you see that often?

[zgrssd]

I have a few questions.

It looks like early game you want to be selective about which mining bases you grab so you get the key resources you need.

However, not sure about mid-game.

1. In the mid-game should I basically be putting mining bases everywhere?
2. Do extra resources translate into cash flow or is just basically wasted once you have enough?
3. Is it ok to have mining base construction on auto in the mid-game or will the AI build too many?

Including some data from DW1, my understanding is:
- Build and Maintenance costs for ships and stations depends on how plentyfull a resource is in the empire
- Excess resource can be sold to independant traders and every empire you have a trade pact with
- Mining is not the only bottleneck. Especially with construction resources, transport can be the bigger one. As transports also need those resources to be build

[Nightskies]

Including some data from DW1, my understanding is...

Yep-ish, yep, and yep*!

#1 is affected by galactic stocks. Not just your empire. So steel will effectively always be cheap. The prices are also ... not strictly proportional to availability. Having logged and charted resource prices and resource amounts in a handful different games (see resource cost thread in the War Room, you can see a snip of some of that data), I can say with certainty. I think the amount of a resource used has as big (or bigger) an impact on its prices.

#3 comes with simple large-scale considerations that ship logistic operations should have. Distance to supplies, fuel, hauling capacities, docking availability, pirates...

[StormingKiwi]

Including some data from DW1, my understanding is...

Yep-ish, yep, and yep*!

#1 is affected by galactic stocks. Not just your empire. So steel will effectively always be cheap. The prices are also ... not strictly proportional to availability. Having logged and charted resource prices and resource amounts in a handful different games (see resource cost thread in the War Room, you can see a snip of some of that data), I can say with certainty. I think the amount of a resource used has as big (or bigger) an impact on its prices.

It's relative scarcity - the interaction between supply and demand. The prices are proportional to availability. Supply is not the only component of availability.

[StormingKiwi]

Considering I only had one trade partner, I can definitively state that the 480,000 credit sum I was paying was not divided among multiple. It was all being earned by a single trade partner.

Interesting. So with the right set of circumstances, resource trading revenues can be quite significant! Is it the only time you've seen such a big amount for resource trading with a single partner (either as revenues or expenses), or do you see that often?

Often I don't pay much attention to that screen, I only took note of it that time because of the abnormality of the last 5 years income.

However, although the resource trading amount was a large absolute value, relative to the size of empire GDP, furrher consideration reveals it was not that significant.

It's the disappointing part of DW2's economic system. Interempire income is hyped up to be much more significant than I have ever seen it in practice.

[OrnluWolfjarl]

My strategy so far has been:

1. Prioritize fuel mines.

2. Get construction resources + 1 mine per asteroid field.

3. Get all other resources.

So yes, build mining stations everywhere. They don't cost you anything (the private sector pays for them), besides resources, and they increase the demand for transport ships (which your private sector pays you for building them).

Just don't build stations outside your transporter ships fuel range, because it WILL result in a bunch of civilian ships getting stranded constantly, which will mess with your supply chains.

The only time you should go easy on building them is if you have construction resource deficits, or you have too few shipyards set up to support all the private sector build-up (while you need the shipyards for colonists/construction ships/military ships)