Pilot training (including "ground school" that apparently exists) and excess pilots in UV...

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

I already started to build picture database (screenshots) for excess pilot replacement problem in UV and I hope to be done in few days (I am using on of my PBEMs).


I am already saw many interesting things:

#1
Even with squadron at "Stand Down" (i.e. "Training" 0%) pilots raise their EXP.

Therefore there is some kind of "ground school" existing.


#2
Pilots apparently constantly swap squadrons.

If you, for example, have squadron with 15 MAX allowed aircraft and have 40 pilots (i.e. huge excess number) some pilots would still constantly (from one turn to another) swap (i.e. even though overall number of pilots would remain fixed at 40 and there were no deaths since there was no flying some pilot names were changing indicating that pilot swaps were being conducted).

This is very strange thing.


I will post results and pictures for two squadrons I monitored in few days when I gather 5 days of PBEM data.


Leo "Apollo11"

[PzB74]

Training from exp 18 -> 50 actually don't take too much time either!
In my AAR game against Crocky, almost every single one of my squadrons have received a few pilots with 18-27 exp.
I've mostly stood these down and after a month or so, almost every single pilot got at least 44-48 exp.

The most horrendous thing is that it's almost always the rookies that do fly - so I can't use my airpower without risking serious losses. A new rule should be created grounding all pilots with <50 exp if possible and letting the trained ones fly.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Training from exp 18 -> 50 actually don't take too much time either!
In my AAR game against Crocky, almost every single one of my squadrons have received a few pilots with 18-27 exp.
I've mostly stood these down and after a month or so, almost every single pilot got at least 44-48 exp.

The most horrendous thing is that it's almost always the rookies that do fly - so I can't use my airpower without risking serious losses. A new rule should be created grounding all pilots with <50 exp if possible and letting the trained ones fly.

We argued that one out during the initial release of the game - the game engine used to only use the experienced pilots, who would get too tired, then get killed or not fly at all. So the nice folks in the back room changed the settings to get rotation of the pilots within groups to give everyone a chance.

I don't think that we want to go back to where we were in the early releases...

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi

[PzB74]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

We argued that one out during the initial release of the game - the game engine used to only use the experienced pilots, who would get too tired, then get killed or not fly at all. So the nice folks in the back room changed the settings to get rotation of the pilots within groups to give everyone a chance.

I don't think that we want to go back to where we were in the early releases...

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi

Don't want to be a pita, but the change wasn't perfect. Now ac won't fly asw missions etc. since the low exp pilots are mostly behind the controls, and they crash A LOT. So I humbly suggest that someone sit down and think out an even better solution for WitP. [&o]

Pilots with less skill than 50 or 40 should really not be allowed to fly unless fatigue levels for the rest exceeds e.g. 50.
This way newbie pilots might be able to finish their landing theory before taking of! [:'(]

[redman1]

Why can't the computer either randomly select pilots from the entire squadron, or always select a representative cross-section such that the averages of the pilots always falls within one standard deviation of the squadron's mean experience level? That sounds pretty simple . . . and fair.

The ideal scenario, and one that seems the most realistic, is to have the higher experienced pilots fly the most important, critical missions such as strikes on carriers, while the greener pilots fly on training missions or ASW. But that's obviously far more difficult to carry that out.

[CapAndGown]

Right now I think the program is as good as it is going to be. Here are the rules, the best as I know them.

For combat missions, the computer will picked the most experienced pilots to fly unless they have high fatigue. If they have high fatigue, then the computer will pick less experienced pilots. This is not 100% however. There is also an agressiveness factor for individual pilots. If one pilot is more experienced that another, but is less agressive, then the less experienced pilot may fly if the experience differential is not too great. I don't know what the weighting is, but generally you see the more experienced pilots fly combat missions first

ASW and Naval Search do not count as combat missions. In this case, the computer will pick the least experienced pilots to fly. This is to give them some training in less difficult missions.

The only problem with the system right now is when you PBY and Emily squadrons fill up with 10 times more pilots than you need. Then your more experienced pilots never fly so that you ASW capability never goes up. If they could fix the problems with too many pilots, these problems would go away.

And now for some of the cool new smilies.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Right now I think the program is as good as it is going to be. Here are the rules, the best as I know them.

For combat missions, the computer will picked the most experienced pilots to fly unless they have high fatigue. If they have high fatigue, then the computer will pick less experienced pilots. This is not 100% however. There is also an agressiveness factor for individual pilots. If one pilot is more experienced that another, but is less agressive, then the less experienced pilot may fly if the experience differential is not too great. I don't know what the weighting is, but generally you see the more experienced pilots fly combat missions first

ASW and Naval Search do not count as combat missions. In this case, the computer will pick the least experienced pilots to fly. This is to give them some training in less difficult missions.

The only problem with the system right now is when you PBY and Emily squadrons fill up with 10 times more pilots than you need. Then your more experienced pilots never fly so that you ASW capability never goes up. If they could fix the problems with too many pilots, these problems would go away.

IMHO, this is not correct... [:(]

If you, for example, have Betty squadron of 27 planes with 40+ pilots (quite usual case in Scen#19) and all pilots are rested (i.e. fatigue = 0) - instead of best pilots (with best EXP) the lower ranking pilots would fly.

I have seen this numerous times and it is always like that... [&:][:(]

BTW, I had some mission is above cases where I didn't loose any planes/pilots and it was crystal clear that bottom 27 pilots flew while top 18 (I had 45 pilots in my example) didn't.

The additional unfortunate thing was that they didn't hit anything because to hit with torpedo you must have EXP higher than 70 I think.


Leo "Apollo11"

[DoomedMantis]

these issues have been improved in WitP, firstly pilots rostas are now more realistic with the generally better pilots flying and also fatigue has been reduced as well

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

these issues have been improved in WitP, firstly pilots rostas are now more realistic with the generally better pilots flying and also fatigue has been reduced as well

Thanks for great info!


Leo "Apollo11"

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

I have all info for 5 days for two squadrons (including pics).

Now... how to best show this... that is the question... (even with cropping of pics combined pic for 2 squadrons and 5 days is 1400x1700 pixels big)... <SIGH>


As I posted in my initial mail I confirmed the following:


#1
Even with squadron at "Stand Down" (i.e. "Training" 0%) pilots raise their EXP.

Therefore there is some kind of "ground school" existing.

This is now 100% confirmed!


#2
Pilots apparently constantly swap squadrons.

If you, for example, have squadron with 15 MAX allowed aircraft and have 40 pilots (i.e. huge excess number) some pilots would still constantly (from one turn to another) swap (i.e. even though overall number of pilots would remain fixed at 40 and there were no deaths since there was no flying some pilot names were changing indicating that pilot swaps were being conducted).

Unfortunately this means that low EXP pilots keep swapping around (from squadron to squadron and-or from squadron back to pool) and that there is no use to train them even if you want... [:(]


Leo "Apollo11"

[DoomedMantis]

point 2 I havent seen myself, and usually get good results from pilot training. Also in WitP you wont see the massive pilot difference that you see in UV as this has been worked

[Denniss]

Pilots not flying won't stay in bed and drink beer/sake - they'll have to look into their books how to fly a plane and how to shoot down an enemy plane .

Sounds normal they learn something up to a limited number

[DoomedMantis]

yep thats the point of the training 0%. They do increase in skill but slower than if they were flying. In WitP, fighter pilots set to train will increase in skill levels faster than if they were on escort or CAP duties not facing the enemy, but only to a certain point (from memory 60). From then on only operational experience will gain them experience.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

There is pic (GIF) with stats.

The pic is small in size but big in area... [8D]


Leo "Apollo11"




P.S. [Edit]
I tried various OCRs to convert pic to text but there were to many errors...

[mariovalleemtl]

Great job Leo.

mv

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée

Great job Leo.

mv

Thanks... [;)]

BTW, it was just a little play in PhotoShop with filters to het nice black&white GIF...


Leo "Apollo11"