CS convoy refueling

[Jaus1]

For high endurance convoys doing ocean crossing deliveries of fuel, I don't want them to refuel at the target base, only at the source base. How do I specify that they should do a full refuel, but only at the start of each voyage (i.e. at the source base)?

[BBfanboy]

When I send large tankers or AOs to drop fuel at Australia (Brisbane or Sydney) they are just a bit short on the range to do a return trip without refueling. So I set a waypoint at PH and set them to fully refuel there. That only takes a small amount of fuel from PH because it is a relatively short part of the trip, but it is enough to make the round trip back to LA (my start point). You can set that as a CS convoy with the waypoint in it.

[Jaus1]

That would help, but i'd still end up using a good bit of the fuel I just transported when the TF refuels at Brisbane/Sydney.

Perhaps the only way to minimize this is to set the TF to minimal refueling and do a waypoint on the outward voyage (?)

[RangerJoe]

Yes, way point refueling with "tactical" refueling, not minimal. Tactical refueling will give a little extra fuel in case the ships have to maneuver some. I suggest places like Christmas Island, to Bora Bora/Tahiti, to Auckland or Melbourne. Against the AI, until you eliminate the IJN submarines around Sydney and/or Brisbane, I would not use those ports too much. But when you do, then you can use Christmas Island, to Penrhyn (edited for the correct name as I was running the combat turn when I posted this originally), then to Tonga, to Sydney or Brisbane. From Tonga, you can also detach some ships to Suva and/or Noumea. From Penrhyn to Pago Pago area is also good.

Also, Noumea has resources and Suva has a little as well, load those and bring them to Oahu.

If needed, you can also not use the direct routes so you can have Naval Air Search coverage. The few AVs that can operate float planes can also go along and provide Naval Air Search to try and find submarines and surface raiders.

[Trugrit]

For high endurance convoys doing ocean crossing deliveries of fuel, I don't want them to refuel at the target base, only at the source base. How do I specify that they should do a full refuel, but only at the start of each voyage (i.e. at the source base)?

CS works differently than a normal run.

For CS...set the Refuel option to “Do not Refuel” and it won’t refuel at the destination.
(This is per the Flyout)

On the return trip the Flyout will still say that it will not refuel but when it gets
to home port it will fully refuel for the next trip.

If you want to check this…..start a cargo task force at San Francisco set to
Destination Los Angeles in CS mode and set “Do not Refuel” option.

It will load supplies at San Francisco….transport them to Los Angeles and unload
them...but not refuel...and when it returns to San Francisco it will refuel.

Another reason you want a separate install to practice operations.

You know…..it is not so much that the manual is out of date as that there
is so much in this game that the manual does not tell you about.

Refuel Option.jpg (126.45 KiB) Viewed 982 times

[Jaus1]

For CS...set the Refuel option to “Do not Refuel” and it won’t refuel at the destination.
(This is per the Flyout)

Great! I hadn't seen that before, thanks.

[Ambassador]

I concur with the above, and would add that Vava’u (Tonga islands) is nice too, with 3/4 SPS, meaning you can reach size 6 port. In the Society Islands, I prefer Tahiti to Bora Bora, but you also have Rangiroa with a 2/3 SPS (slightly better than Bora Bora, and higher troop capacity), and Hiva Oa and Nuku Hiva (in the Marquises) have 2/2 SPS, and are usually less obvious. Further south, if you want to hog the bottom limit of the map, you may refuel at Rapa (hex 170,196 if you don’t know where it is), which has a 2/2 SPS.
Usually, I send my first SeaBees to some of those (as well as other points mentioned above) to build up a canvas of refueling stops. The higher the port level, the less you rely on oilers to do the refueling.

[BBfanboy]

That would help, but i'd still end up using a good bit of the fuel I just transported when the TF refuels at Brisbane/Sydney.

Perhaps the only way to minimize this is to set the TF to minimal refueling and do a waypoint on the outward voyage (?)

Yes, I forgot to mention setting the TF to Do Not Refuel or Minimal Refuel. Those big tankers with the 12,000 or more NM range can almost make the round trip, so a full waypoint refuel at PH on the way out gives them plenty to do the tactical maneuvering that RJ mentions. 12K NM is 400 hexes, and if you check the distance to Brisbane or Sydney from LA you should get just over 200 hexes - so the shortfall for the return trip is not much and the PH refueling takes care of that. And your shorter range (8800 NM)/large capacity (14K tons or more) tankers can do a CS to PH to keep it acting as a fuel stop for all kinds of TFs.

[Ambassador]

Los Angeles-Christmas-Pago Pago-Sydney is 181 hexes, so 362 round trip, and is identical to SD-PH-Pago Pago-Sydney. LA-Tahiti-Sydney is 191, so 382, slightly longer but safer. However, 12k NM is 300 hexes, not 400.
PH is 60 hexes away of LA, so the round trip from PH is 242, meaning the margin after the westbound refuel is barely 20% for the Federal type, and still less than 25% for a T2-SE type. When routing through PH (which I avoid initially due to the closeness with the IJN bases), I like to have a secondary spot for a minimal refuel.
Actually, it pays to have minimal refuels, rather than tactical refuel. With numbers, it helps to understand : if you do a tactical refuel at Tahiti (around 100 hexes away from LA), with a Federal type (12k endurance, requiring 1300-something fuel for a full refill), a tactical refuel will try to have enough fuel for the trip (100/300, so a third of the bunker, around 450 fuel), +50% (tactical refuels aim to give a « pad » of 50%, where minimal refuel aim for 10%). So a total of around 675 fuel taken from Tahiti. With a minimal refuel, your tanker will actually only fill up to 450+10%, less than 500, so you make an economy of around 160 fuel (around 25% of the refuel at Tahiti), allowing you to bring that fewer fuel to Tahiti.
Advantage of Tahiti : a Federal/T2 doing the trip LA-Sydney through Tahiti has a first leg of 103 hexes, and arrives at Tahiti with bunkers filled at 2/3 (enough for around 200 hexes). Tahiti-Sydney is 88 hexes, 176 for the round trip, plus the 103 of the return to LA ; a minimal refuel will aim to achieve enough endurance for 279+10%, which equals to filling the bunkers. You will have enough fuel to maneuver on that Tahiti-Oz-Tahiti trip, and usually the Tahiti/LA part is safer so you don’t need to maneuver much (if you do, you shouldn’t run CS convoys). On the return stop to Tahiti, the tanker will arrive with 300-176 hexes of endurance = 124 hexes. Which is more than the 103+10% which a minimal refuel will target, so you’ll only have had to fill one third of the bunker (on the outward trip), or 450-something.
If you had taken tactical refueling, you’d still leave Tahiti on the outward way with a full bunker (can’t take more than that anyway, so you fuel the same amount), but on the return leg, the tanker would try to have 103+50% hexes of endurance, when it arrives with enough for 124 hexes. So the tanker will try to have enough fuel for another 30 hexes or so, instead of coming back to LA to fill.
TL/DR: if you opt for a minimal refuel in Tahiti, you need to bring 500 fuel per tanker per round trip, while you need to bring close to 700 if you choose a tactical refuel.

[RangerJoe]

If you refuel at Christmas Island, then you may need less fuel there.

Also, be sure to add AGs to your pit stops in case any escorts need depth charges or other ammo. They can also help with repairs on the smaller escorts if they decide to play bumper ships.

[Sardaukar]

Against competent enemy, you might circle way further than Christmas I., it is still in range of quick CV TF dash from enemy.

You might want to go LA- Tahiti . Auckland - Sydney.

Best thing is just to add AO into TF, thus you don't have to usually stop to refuel in base.

[Ambassador]

Not that much, in fact*. LA-Christmas is 83 hexes, Christmas-Sydney is 98. Arriving at Christmas, a Federal type will need to top up her bunkers (because she has to do 98x2+83 hexes, +10%), so you use roughly 360 fuel for that first leg. Coming back to Christmas on the return way, the same tanker arrives with an endurance limited to (pfff, I’m starting to get tired, I have a hard time with simple maths…), more than the 83+10% needed for the return to LA. So, 360 fuel. Through Tahiti, you used 450 fuel to refill the tanker. So hardly 20% less fuel in Christmas. Personally, I wouldn’t risk my precious tankers for such a small gain anyway, even without the following considerations.

Speaking of which, Christmas is problematic, as Sardaukar said, and not only because of the proximity to the IJN bases (barely 55 hexes from Kwajalein, while Tahiti is 70-something, and it’s way worse if Japan took Canton, for example). While Tahiti is protected by two « layers » of islands (minimum) between the IJN and your refuel hub (Malden-Penrhyn-Samoa for one, and the other Society & Cook Islands), Christmas may at best only be « protected » by Canton and Baker, and is rather isolated (the other Line islands are few in numbers and rather small) compared to Tahiti (which may count on Bora Bora, Moorea, Raiatea, Rangiroa, and a couple of other interesting dot bases).

The ideal route after the refueling at Christmas also has a stretch of over fifteen hexes without a single island between the pathway and Canton island (and if you make a detour east of Malden Island, your route through Christmas becomes longer than the route through Tahiti).

Even further along, the Christmas route is ten hexes north of the Tahiti route, so if you want a southern route, a refueling stop through Christmas is a bigger detour, and will require more fuel at Christmas (because lengthening the Christmas-Sydney to, say, 120 hexes (counting the detour east of Malden and adopting a route as south as Tahiti), means the tanker will come back at Christmas on the return leg of the voyage with barely 60 hexes of endurance and require, again, 83+10%, or 31 hexes worth of fuel - for that Federal type tanker, 31 hexes of fuel is 136 fuel - bringing the total used to 360 + 136, or more than the 450 fuel needed for the Tahiti route).

And, if Japan took Fiji, or New Caledonia, as often happens, you have to route your convoys south of New Zealand, and then the Christmas route is definitely longer than the Tahiti route.

Moreover, Christmas’ port is maximized at size 4, while Tahiti may go up to 5, which has an influence on the daily fuel operations (+33% higher at Tahiti).


ÉDIT: * answering to Ranger Joe’s about needing less fuel at Christmas. I lost the quote, somehow…

[RangerJoe]

Against competent enemy, you might circle way further than Christmas I., it is still in range of quick CV TF dash from enemy.

You might want to go LA- Tahiti . Auckland - Sydney.

Best thing is just to add AO into TF, thus you don't have to usually stop to refuel in base.

That is true. It also depends upon the time frame in the game, what you have in the area, plus what you have done to the enemy fleet.

But against the AI, in my current game only have they attacked as far as Bora Bora and that is with maybe a PB as escort or undefended xAKs. Of course, sinking 4 big carriers, 2 CVLs, and 2 CVEs before September 1942 does help. Especially with no aircraft carrier losses for my side. I just took a peek at the other side, 11 Divisions are destroyed while 7 are trapped and being destroyed. Not to mention lots of other ground units destroyed as well.