Is Italy Represented properly in the game?

[Justaxxx]

Italy seems to be undervaled in the game. I have been wondering about the Italian fleet. It appears to be way under historical levels in the game. They had a total of seven battleships over the course of the war. They had seven heavy cruisers, over 100 subs and a high number of light cruisers, destroyers, MTBs. They built destroyer escorts as well. I saw there is an option for the Italian aircraft carrier. Not sure how the game breaks down the number a counter represents. Also, the Italians had special forces that sank two British battleships and a heavy cruiser. Italian tank development seems to be immaturely paused at the start. They should have tech already invested in since the M13/40 was fielded in 1940. One other thought, the Italians fielded over 4 million soldiers in the war. Heavily garrisoning the Balkans which allowed German forces to be elsewhere. Do you think the current Italian Army reaches that level? Looking for any thoughts....


Why is there no convoy routes in the med for the Allies and axis?

[Platoonist]

Also, the Italians had special forces that sank two British battleships and a heavy cruiser.

There is a Decision Event (704) for the Italians where if they pay 25 MPP there will be a 2% chance per turn of a successful attack on an Allied warship in harbor throughout the Mediterranean as long as Italy is in the war on the Axis side.

Not sure how the game breaks down the number a counter represents.

I seem to recall reading that the named capital ship counters abstractly represent more than one ship. Yes, the Italian had a lot of submarines but historically they were rather ineffective. That might be why their counter count in the game is so low. That's just a guess on my part. It might also be because the Mediterranean is so cramped in terms of hexes, that the developers felt they had to limit the Regia Marina's submarine numbers to keep them from being over-powered.

Why is there no convoy routes in the med for the Allies and axis?

The game starts with an Allied convoy route running through the Med, but the Allies have the option (Decision Event 103) to switch it to run around the Cape of Good Hope (Africa) once hostilities commence with Italy. I think the convoy routes marked on the map are meant to primarily represent the movement of resources and raw materials (iron ore, oil, timber, foodstuffs) and since 1940s Libya had precious little to offer Italy in the way of meaningful economic resources, that is probably why the Axis has no convoy route between it and Libya.

[Chernobyl]

Regarding the Vittorio Veneto class, am I right when I say I can't find them in the event scripts? I am looking for an event that places the Littorio and/or Vittorio Veneto and not finding it. These ships should definitely be in the game.

Regarding older Italian BBs: (Conte di Cavour class, Andrea Doria class) which are represented as equals to modern battleships. They were slow and had small guns (12.6 inch is not up to par). And there were only four ships, yet the game represents them with three BB units, which is above average (for most nations it's about 2 historical ships to one unit for older BBs).

As far as cruisers go, I think Italy is slightly underrepresented. As of the start of the war, Italy had 12 what I would call decent CLs and 7 what I would accept as up-to-par CAs. That doesn't mean their crew training or fire control was equal to England's, but that aspect is handled by technology in game. The game represents these cruisers as one CL unit (str 10) and two CA units (str 5). I don't know why they begin at low strength, as Italian CAs as far as I know were seaworthy and participated in early-war naval battles in 1940.

As for DD and SS, I don't know. Italy might be represented correctly.


If I could edit the game's navies, I would implement a "dreadnought" or "obsolete battleship" class, but barring that I would simply do this for the Regia Marina (potential balance issues aside):

-Give them 2 BB to start instead of 3. Even this is quite generous considering these ships really aren't battleships by WWII standards.
-Add BB Vittorio Veneto and/or Littorio to build queue or mid 1940 event if it's not already there
-Repair those CA from strength 5 to 10 unless there's a compelling reason to consider them unready in 1939
-Give Italy an additional CL to start
-Probably give Italy an additional DD, or delete the strength=6 DD that spawns off East Africa that always dies, and place it in Italy.
-Add a strength=6 naval bombers to Italy's build queue

[Tanaka]

Italy seems to be undervaled in the game. I have been wondering about the Italian fleet. It appears to be way under historical levels in the game. They had a total of seven battleships over the course of the war. They had seven heavy cruisers, over 100 subs and a high number of light cruisers, destroyers, MTBs. They built destroyer escorts as well. I saw there is an option for the Italian aircraft carrier. Not sure how the game breaks down the number a counter represents. Also, the Italians had special forces that sank two British battleships and a heavy cruiser. Italian tank development seems to be immaturely paused at the start. They should have tech already invested in since the M13/40 was fielded in 1940. One other thought, the Italians fielded over 4 million soldiers in the war. Heavily garrisoning the Balkans which allowed German forces to be elsewhere. Do you think the current Italian Army reaches that level? Looking for any thoughts....


Why is there no convoy routes in the med for the Allies and axis?

Yes they have quite a bit more ships in the WIE game over the WAW game as well as another army in the Balkans among others so I also always thought this as well. I think the Destroyer in E. Africa that always gets destroyed should be replaced with a sub group they had there.

[archmache]

Regarding the Vittorio Veneto class, am I right when I say I can't find them in the event scripts? I am looking for an event that places the Littorio and/or Vittorio Veneto and not finding it. These ships should definitely be in the game.

Regarding older Italian BBs: (Conte di Cavour class, Andrea Doria class) which are represented as equals to modern battleships. They were slow and had small guns (12.6 inch is not up to par). And there were only four ships, yet the game represents them with three BB units, which is above average (for most nations it's about 2 historical ships to one unit for older BBs).

As far as cruisers go, I think Italy is slightly underrepresented. As of the start of the war, Italy had 12 what I would call decent CLs and 7 what I would accept as up-to-par CAs. That doesn't mean their crew training or fire control was equal to England's, but that aspect is handled by technology in game. The game represents these cruisers as one CL unit (str 10) and two CA units (str 5). I don't know why they begin at low strength, as Italian CAs as far as I know were seaworthy and participated in early-war naval battles in 1940.

As for DD and SS, I don't know. Italy might be represented correctly.


If I could edit the game's navies, I would implement a "dreadnought" or "obsolete battleship" class, but barring that I would simply do this for the Regia Marina (potential balance issues aside):

-Give them 2 BB to start instead of 3. Even this is quite generous considering these ships really aren't battleships by WWII standards.
-Add BB Vittorio Veneto and/or Littorio to build queue or mid 1940 event if it's not already there
-Repair those CA from strength 5 to 10 unless there's a compelling reason to consider them unready in 1939
-Give Italy an additional CL to start
-Probably give Italy an additional DD, or delete the strength=6 DD that spawns off East Africa that always dies, and place it in Italy.
-Add a strength=6 naval bombers to Italy's build queue

Italy had no rangefinders that worked at night limiting all engagement to daytime / in sight. This was a huge disadvantage and the one. Big battle they lost cause of it.