Game Balance

[generalfdog]

My latest game fairly even match, I am the Axis and I definitely made some mistakes that cost me the game but it wasn't that many the eastern front was where it was won and lost and I actually wore the Soviets done to 1500 or so and I was about even for awhile but at the expense of an early loss in Africa and an early loss of Italy. I think the players who are saying that you have to invade early to save USSR are simply playing against an opponent who are over comitting in the east thus opening up an opportunity and a need for an early Allied invasion.

43 disaster.jpg (372.19 KiB) Viewed 1413 times

[generalfdog]

This kind of outcome is why I am arguing against beefing up the Soviets, I think to have a chance Germany needs them to be 30 experience, and Germany HAS to get some good encirclements or they will be worn down and lose possibly a year or more early

[ncc1701e]

My latest game fairly even match, I am the Axis and I definitely made some mistakes that cost me the game but it wasn't that many the eastern front was where it was won and lost and I actually wore the Soviets done to 1500 or so and I was about even for awhile but at the expense of an early loss in Africa and an early loss of Italy. I think the players who are saying that you have to invade early to save USSR are simply playing against an opponent who are over comitting in the east thus opening up an opportunity and a need for an early Allied invasion.

As Axis in this game, did you add any manpower problem? Any oil problem?

[generalfdog]

Yes I was Axis and I had oil problems which always slowed me at the wrong time which felt Historical, and I was developing a manpower issue down to 45%

[MagicMissile]

My latest game fairly even match, I am the Axis and I definitely made some mistakes that cost me the game but it wasn't that many the eastern front was where it was won and lost and I actually wore the Soviets done to 1500 or so and I was about even for awhile but at the expense of an early loss in Africa and an early loss of Italy. I think the players who are saying that you have to invade early to save USSR are simply playing against an opponent who are over comitting in the east thus opening up an opportunity and a need for an early Allied invasion.43 disaster.jpg

I would have loved to see an AAR of this game. If the Soviets were down to 1500 I cant understand how things could have turned around so badly and so quickly. How did your subs do? How many did you build? If the BoA did badly I can maybe see it as that can make the Western allies strong pretty quickly.

/MM

[AlvaroSousa]

He forgot to build "ubermensch" zombie units.

[ncc1701e]

With a manpower issue down to 45%, I assume he did. Or he had some catastrophic losses.

[generalfdog]

My latest game fairly even match, I am the Axis and I definitely made some mistakes that cost me the game but it wasn't that many the eastern front was where it was won and lost and I actually wore the Soviets done to 1500 or so and I was about even for awhile but at the expense of an early loss in Africa and an early loss of Italy. I think the players who are saying that you have to invade early to save USSR are simply playing against an opponent who are over comitting in the east thus opening up an opportunity and a need for an early Allied invasion.43 disaster.jpg

I would have loved to see an AAR of this game. If the Soviets were down to 1500 I cant understand how things could have turned around so badly and so quickly. How did your subs do? How many did you build? If the BoA did badly I can maybe see it as that can make the Western allies strong pretty quickly.

/MM

honestly Idk how it went so terribly wrong so fast. the boa was a slug fest as well I think at my peak I had 9 subs and UK was down to something like 120mm USA however always had 150+ the other interesting thing is my opponent never sent any lend lease to Russia that I could see, which did make it so he needed less mm. He is a good player and countered every move I made. basically I went all in in Russia and it bit me

[MagicMissile]

My latest game fairly even match, I am the Axis and I definitely made some mistakes that cost me the game but it wasn't that many the eastern front was where it was won and lost and I actually wore the Soviets done to 1500 or so and I was about even for awhile but at the expense of an early loss in Africa and an early loss of Italy. I think the players who are saying that you have to invade early to save USSR are simply playing against an opponent who are over comitting in the east thus opening up an opportunity and a need for an early Allied invasion.43 disaster.jpg

I would have loved to see an AAR of this game. If the Soviets were down to 1500 I cant understand how things could have turned around so badly and so quickly. How did your subs do? How many did you build? If the BoA did badly I can maybe see it as that can make the Western allies strong pretty quickly.

/MM

honestly Idk how it went so terribly wrong so fast. the boa was a slug fest as well I think at my peak I had 9 subs and UK was down to something like 120mm USA however always had 150+ the other interesting thing is my opponent never sent any lend lease to Russia that I could see, which did make it so he needed less mm. He is a good player and countered every move I made. basically I went all in in Russia and it bit me

Interesting, well live and learn all I can say . Actually I am in a game right now as the allies and I can see that things can go pretty wrong for the Axis if one is not careful. My opponent after I must say a very lucky UK start to the BoA gave up on subs early which meant Uk could switch to building landing craft. My opponent went pretty all in in Russia so many ports were ungarrisoned so by New year 41/42 Albania, Sicily, Rhodes and all of Africa is already under UK control.
Considering options but France in 42 not impossible we will see. So lesson to learn here is I think one has to buy those subs and try to keep up the pressure on the UK no matter how badly they do in the beginning.

/MM

[AlvaroSousa]

You can't build too much armor as Germany or you will run out of oil.

You can't send surface ships out 100% of the time or you will run out of oil.

[sveint]

v19 preliminary findings, the Soviets are as underpowered as ever

I don't know who in their right mind votes Allied bias, they are simply wrong.

As always, I play both sides.

[battlevonwar]

I have to agree with sveint here, I literally punted off 420 HP(land) 100(air) pre-Barbarossa cause I was just learning the mechanics of the game again. I had forgotten the CNTRL button and until about August 1st of 1940 but I feel like despite that the Allies are literally that weak against an able Axis Player. Russia is like Butter! (from a guy who played EVERYONE of note here)

P.S. So how do we get a balanced Russia?

v19 preliminary findings, the Soviets are as underpowered as ever

I don't know who in their right mind votes Allied bias, they are simply wrong.

As always, I play both sides.

[ncc1701e]

P.S. So how do we get a balanced Russia?

With a real map to prevent Moscow from falling too easily?

[AlvaroSousa]

Are you maxing lend lease to the Soviets? That is a must.

Are you going all out against the Russians and ignoring submarines?

[AlvaroSousa]

I'll run some tests A.I. vs A.I. If I see the Axis constantly overrunning Russia I will look into some adjustments.

[AlvaroSousa]

is the issue production, units, or experience for the Soviets?

[ncc1701e]

is the issue production, units, or experience for the Soviets?

I like this image. So true.

Russia is like Butter!

The problem is the panzer ball. An AI will never do a panzer ball. To counter it, we need more units or stronger units.
Or we need something else.

First thing:

1941 is not that bad. The problem is really 1942. The way it works 30% or 50% experience of something low is giving something low. The very first thing I would add is an event to increase the DEFENSE value of USSR armies in 1942. Like this, an half infantry army can really start to be useful on the frontline.

And this is not too early. July 1942, experience of Soviet armies are still low. So Fall Blau is still possible for the German player.

//USSR armies are upgraded with the introduction of Defense Order N°227
$ChangeUnitAttributes
if_Date=7/28/1942
if_Country=4
if_Alliance=Allies
lifespan=tillTrigger
targetCountry=4
unitID=4
stats=36,4,2,3,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,5,5,1,60,180,1,1
text=Defense Order N°227, Ni Shagu Nazad! (Not a Step Back!), aimed primarily at officers and policital commissars, was issued by Stalin to prevent any further unauthorized retreat. USSR infantry army units gain +1 defense.
addReportTo=Allies
$End

Second thing;

In order to reduce the panzer ball and, the fact, that an unit can advance for nothing inside a contested hex. I would not change the 1 op cost to enter. But, I would add an increased effectiveness penalty to enter any contested hex. Because, this is too easy to push (like butter ) an unit with a Panzer corps. Bring another Panzer corps push the same or another unit then bring another Panzer corps push... Today it is costing 1% effectiveness to enter a contested hex. Increases it.

With this effectiveness penalty, I would like that it is possible to do it one turn, the next turn but that it stops on the third turn.

Third thing:

German manpower is much too high. Reduce it by removing at least these two events:

$ModifyCountry
if_Date=6/1/1941
if_Country=2
if_Surrender=true
lifespan=tillTrigger
actionCountry=6
manpower=120
addReportTo=Axis
text=Foreign volunteers join the Waffen SS. Germany gains 120 manpower.
$End

...

$ModifyCountry
if_Date=6/1/1942
if_Country=4
if_Alliance=Allies
lifespan=tillTrigger
actionCountry=6
manpower=120
addReportTo=Axis
text=Foreign volunteers join the Waffen SS. Germany gains 120 manpower.
$End

Small changes.

[sveint]

is the issue production, units, or experience for the Soviets?

In my opinion it is two things :
a) Not enough Soviet units on the map in 1941 (and then running out of manpower in 42)
b) Germany takes close to zero casualties in 1941 and can just push though (instead of surrounding) Soviet lines.

Germany also has absolutely no manpower problems until maybe 44 or 45.

[sveint]

1942 seems better to me, 7 move mechs really help.

But when the starting point is Moscow captured and you barely have enough units to make a continuous frontline, it matters little.

Unlike ncc1701e I don't think 1942 is the problem. Once US enters the war and sends production, the Soviets are fine, provided they are not out of manpower and units on the map.

[sveint]

In order to reduce the panzer ball and

I think the mechanics are fine as they are. An easy way to balance things is just to make the Soviets slightly stronger.

Personally I'd go for more starting units (very easy to implement, just a scenario edit), but I am not a game designer, so there may better ways.