A better appreciation of why the Soviets are weak

[sveint]

So I spent a few minutes on the steam forums (had a few minutes to spare without the possibility of doing anything else really), and...

The average/new player has trouble taking Norway or France (mostly they play Axis) against AI. I can only imagine their trouble against the Soviets.

In most games I am that player, I don't read forums, nor guides nor watch videos, I just play.

Not sure what the grand solution to this is, except perhaps either different multi-player scenarios or handicaps.

[Nirosi]

So I spent a few minutes on the steam forums (had a few minutes to spare without the possibility of doing anything else really), and...

The average/new player has trouble taking Norway or France (mostly they play Axis) against AI. I can only imagine their trouble against the Soviets.

In most games I am that player, I don't read forums, nor guides nor watch videos, I just play.

Not sure what the grand solution to this is, except perhaps either different multi-player scenarios or handicaps.

Or player's ranking like in chess

[MagicMissile]

So I spent a few minutes on the steam forums (had a few minutes to spare without the possibility of doing anything else really), and...

The average/new player has trouble taking Norway or France (mostly they play Axis) against AI. I can only imagine their trouble against the Soviets.

In most games I am that player, I don't read forums, nor guides nor watch videos, I just play.

Not sure what the grand solution to this is, except perhaps either different multi-player scenarios or handicaps.

I bought my first strategy game when I was 11 a small black box the game was called Armor at Kursk. Christmas same year I got Avalon Hills game War at Sea and since then I have played hex based strategy games and I am now turning 52 soon so its been a while. I guess quite a number of people on these forums have a similar story. That means when I play a new game you intuitively knows some basics of what to do and what not to do. But if you are new to hex based games maybe come from HOI or something similar then yes I can understand it can confusing it takes some time to get it right.

I used to play a lot of RTS games espcially Starcraft and Warcraft amazing games but I was useless like a silver, low gold player not very good . Way too slow on the keyboard. Those games also have a constant discussion on play balance but those games were balanced for the best players since it was also supposed to be games that people compete in for money. So we low level worms just had to accept that . But it is a interesting question who you balance for the best or the average player. I dont really know the answer but I think the way to do it is putting in some kind of handicap system.
I guess it would be fairly easy. A slider where you can give extra production or unit experience or something to the player considered a bit weaker.

I did not know there was a steam forum maybe I sould check it out too.

/MM

[sveint]

Or player's ranking like in chess

Ranking leads to cheating. It's exceedingly easy to cheat in WarPlan, so no thanks.

[AlvaroSousa]

There is a wide gap in skills between players.

If the scenarios are too hard for newer players I get blasted by bad reviews and the game never sells.
But I can't make it exploitable where a very good players playing 1 side always wins.

So the balance I try to hit is timing. A weaker player might take France later like late September and not be happy about it quoting historical time frames forgetting hindsight is 20/20 but at least he is challenged to improve.

Meanwhile making sure no exploits are in the game.

I highly suspect many of the players don't realize the multihex attack feature.

When I first made WarPlan I put a big GUI with an arrow pointing to the "?" help section when you started the game..... no one noticed. It had all the help files to start playing.

WP2 will just popup the help in your face with screen shots and instructions.

[boldairade]

So I spent a few minutes on the steam forums (had a few minutes to spare without the possibility of doing anything else really), and...

The average/new player has trouble taking Norway or France (mostly they play Axis) against AI. I can only imagine their trouble against the Soviets.

In most games I am that player, I don't read forums, nor guides nor watch videos, I just play.

Not sure what the grand solution to this is, except perhaps either different multi-player scenarios or handicaps.

this is important

what % of players are at the skill level of the average poster here?

many of the 'balance issues' voiced here will never be experienced by the bottom 85% of the player base.

and the real problem, i would guess, as a dev, is what if you balance the game for optimal play-the top 15%, but it makes it less enjoyable/accessible to the bottom 85%?

it sounds like bad business.

that's not to say it's always the case. I just often try to see it from the Dev's point of view.

[sveint]

I highly suspect many of the players don't realize the multihex attack feature.

Maybe attacking with all units should be default, press a key for only attacking with one/some units? (for WarPlan 2)

[AlvaroSousa]

I have been thinking about this today.

I am going to post something special up soon.
It will be a beta version for everyone to try. Both players need to have the beta version for it to work.

Anyways due to France being easier it means a stronger Germany in the USSR. So I bumped up the base experience of the Soviets 30 -> 40% and the reserves 30 -> 40%.

The issue is casualties. The Germans just aren't taking the casualties they need to take on the Eastern front in 1941 from what I am interpreting. 1941 fine you stop them. But 1942 they are a larger juggernaut which wasn't the case.

The idea of weakening France was because that shouldn't determine the game outcome. Russia can though.

[ncc1701e]

I am ready to test this one. Will it be with small fleet? Med is so much better with small fleet.

Also, if you want to improve the number of casualties the Germans are taking in 1941, I wonder if it is not better to put all the reserve armies with Anti-Tank advancement. All except the Siberians still Assault 1941.

Same for the existing on map infantry rifle corps at 20% experience. This will allow to buy infantry rifle corps with Anti-Tank advancement.

Later, once PP are there, this will allow to change them in 1943 when it is time to come back.

Red army is more about guns (Anti-Tank) not firearms (Assault).

[sveint]

I am ready to test this one.

Mirror games?

[ncc1701e]

Mirror games?

Absolutely. Also, I am not sure this beta is available yet.

[stjeand]

Ready for the armor to roll.

[stjeand]

Another HUGE issue with the USSR is the Germans ALWAYS attack earlier than historically.

IF the Germans had attacked in April or May like they can the USSR would have been in much worse shape overall.

Given an extra 2 up to 6 turns is huge.

Almost makes me think that you make USSR units with higher STR and EXP and from April to June they slowly drop to their expected level.

You can go early but their units are stronger...OR you can go in June when they are what they were historically.

[Nirosi]

Also, if you want to improve the number of casualties the Germans are taking in 1941, I wonder if it is not better to put all the reserve armies with Anti-Tank advancement. All except the Siberians still Assault 1941.

Same for the existing on map infantry rifle corps at 20% experience. This will allow to buy infantry rifle corps with Anti-Tank advancement.

Later, once PP are there, this will allow to change them in 1943 when it is time to come back.

Red army is more about guns (Anti-Tank) not firearms (Assault).

+1. I think it would be a great idea.

[AlvaroSousa]

It is up in the development forum. I know the 3 of you are part of that special project.

[sveint]

It is up in the development forum. I know the 3 of you are part of that special project.

Still waiting on approval.

[ncc1701e]

Thanks

[AlvaroSousa]

It is up in the development forum. I know the 3 of you are part of that special project.

Still waiting on approval.

I asked my producer to approve you again

[canuckgamer]

I would like to clarify the status of the beta with the changes to the Russians. According to one your posts Alvaro it will be available to everyone so where will we be able to access the download? Is it going to be up shortly? Thanks.

[canuckgamer]

I think the effects of the winter of 41/42 in Russia on the Germans in War Plan is understated. As it is now they lose effectiveness which is not a permanent loss as opposed to strength point losses. Historically, I believe that thousands of German soldiers froze to death because they had no winter clothing or gear.