Naval sharing

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 9:45 pm

Perhaps I am a bit too harsh with Gavris and his ilk. I am going to impose a moratorium on responding to gavris and possibly refrain from posting responses to anyone. If wanting cites make me an intolerant a**hole then mayhaps I will retire from the forums.

No, nothing wrong with insisting on some relevance/documentation. If you review the infamous "Steel pen" thread, you'll see that you and I completely agreed.
I'm no holier-than-thou type: there's a few folks that post on the forum (no you btw

) that are irritating; just take a deep breath and answer the question.
Gavris, you COULD thank folks for going to the trouble of researching out your questions....

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:09 pm

The six Uboats, supporting Barborossa, what exaclty were they doing? Convoy strikes, shore fire suport? Just curious, i'm at work and haven't had time to check out those links.
Seems to me subs are a strategic weapon, not tactical. Kinda out of the scope of this game, ie like individual heavy bombers. IMHO

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:17 pm

No, Aleksandr....nobody is trying to put U-Boats in the game. This was simply an effort to clarify some things that were posted in this thread.

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:38 pm

Thx Flash, afraid that next we'd see the Enola Gay flying over the horizon

Just kidding. Still curious tho what those Uboats were doing.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:02 am

Alex,
They were working antishipping missions in the Black Sea. Later, they did some supply runs to units in the Kerch area.

mpenfold · Post by **mpenfold** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:51 am

Originally posted by sven:

Gavris seems to feel that he should be mounting these indirect fire off the board weapons on river boats. I do not think that any river boat to the best of my knowledge mounted ANY HEAVY GUN. You might think I am mocking him, and possibly to a degree there is some mirth involved.

regards,
sven

Actually the British (and Germans I think) had a class of waship called a monitor. This was a very shallow draught vessel, with minimal protection, almost a barge with big guns. It was designed to support seabourne landings in WWI. Whilst they were never used on rivers, they certainly could have have operated on them. At least one of the British ships was used during the D-Day landings. As far as I can recall they had 14" guns. I do not have access to my copy of Conways otherwise I would post more details.

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:29 am

Thanks Grumble

sven · Post by **sven** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:32 am

Originally posted by Matt Penfold:

Actually the British (and Germans I think) had a class of waship called a monitor. This was a very shallow draught vessel, with minimal protection, almost a barge with big guns. It was designed to support seabourne landings in WWI. Whilst they were never used on rivers, they certainly could have have operated on them. At least one of the British ships was used during the D-Day landings. As far as I can recall they had 14" guns. I do not have access to my copy of Conways otherwise I would post more details.

Matt that is nice to know, but the game does not to the best of my knowledge model their use as direct fire vessels. We are finishing up this game and moving on to the next. Maybe Gavris should post these queries to the Combat Leader board.

Thanks for the reply,
sven

Gavris Narcis · Post by **Gavris Narcis** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:50 am

Originally posted by Flashfyre:
Gavris, a little geography lesson here....

The Danube River flows from southwestern Germany, through the Bavarian region, into Austria, then Hungary, the northern part of Yugoslavia, and forms the southern border of Rumania, before emptying into the Black Sea.

Now, from the reasearch I have done, the German U-Boat fleet was deployed from Wilhelmshaven and Kiel, on the North and Baltic Seas. The only major rivers running from these bodies of water are the Elbe, and the Oder. Neither connects with the Danube.

So how were U-Boats to travel to the Black Sea, if they had no direct river to the Danube? Perhaps you misread something while researching the Danube Fleet?

Were transported some distance on road like the KFK's (Kusten Fich Kutter)submarine hunters -110 tons. You're missing a lot of informations.

Leo.

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:00 am

Very well, Gavris...but I'm sure they were transported in pieces. No naval vessel, even one as small as the TypeIIA U-Boats, could be transported by rail, truck, or barge fully assembled. These boats were 41 meters long (that's 134.5 ft), with a beam of 4.08 meters (13.4 ft). The transports alone would have to exceed these dimensions, and that would play havoc with moving them across mountain roads and through railway tunnels. In addition, displacement was 381 tons....what vehicle out there could haul this much weight, and still move? A train, perhaps....but the length would make it impossible to travel along any curve.

On a final note, since only 6 of these were ever moved to the Black Sea overland, this does negate your statement about the Danube being the only route Germany had for years to move it's U-boat fleet to the Black Sea.

Again, I cite you references:
http://www.bosun.net/page9a.html http://uboat.net/flotillas/30flo.htm http://uboat.net/index.html

Please read through these, Gavris.....before you post any replies.