More Variants - The Allies ride again - No xargun please

[Nomad]

January 11, 1944

Bad day for the USAAF and USN bombers. I forgot to set up sweepers over Truk and paid the price for that oversight.
I lost about 75 bombers, such is life. The war goes on, it hurts but is not fatal.
Even though it was a loss of airframes, I have more than enough to cover the losses.
In terms of USAAF 4-engine bombers, I have about 250 in the pools and for PB-1s I have 150 in the pools, so I can
move forward. I am sending all my 4-engine bombers on night bombing of the airfield, even though I think he has moved
all his fighters out, I am also sweeping Truk.

440112 air losses.png (381.16 KiB) Viewed 1265 times

At Sorong we are slowly removing fort levels.

Ground combat at Sorong (82,107)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15022 troops, 280 guns, 516 vehicles, Assault Value = 503

Defending force 8553 troops, 33 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 246

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 506

Japanese adjusted defense: 155

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
874 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 82 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
70 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Assaulting units:
32nd Infantry Division
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
2/9th Armoured Regiment
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
I US Corps
1st Medium Regiment
2nd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
16th GEACPS Brigade
3rd JNAF AF Unit
58th JNAF AF Unit

I had a medium sized Chinese unit that got trapped in Kwangchowan, but I am hoping to trap some Japanese units there also

Ground combat at Kwangchowan (73,60)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15011 troops, 169 guns, 626 vehicles, Assault Value = 587

Defending force 8470 troops, 92 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 166

Japanese adjusted assault: 371

Allied adjusted defense: 15

Japanese assault odds: 24 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kwangchowan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
170 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
9740 casualties reported
Squads: 365 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 598 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 36 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 51 (51 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Division
22nd GEACPS Brigade

Defending units:
45th Chinese Corps
49th AA Regiment

[Nomad]

January 12, 1944

I think this sub ended up sinking, not sure yet

ASW attack near Sorong at 83,105

Japanese Ships
SS I-170, hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
CL Santa Fe
CL Columbia
DD Bennett
DD LaVallette
DD Jenkins
DD Hutchins

SS I-170 is sighted by escort
DD LaVallette fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Jenkins attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-170 eludes ASW attack from DD Jenkins
DD Hutchins fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Jenkins fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Jenkins attacking submerged sub ....
DD Jenkins loses contact with SS I-170
SS I-170 eludes DD Jenkins by hugging bottom
DD Jenkins fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Jenkins fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Jenkins attacking submerged sub ....
DD Jenkins is out of ASW ammo
Escort abandons search for sub

Sorong falls to the Allies

Ground combat at Sorong (82,107)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15008 troops, 280 guns, 518 vehicles, Assault Value = 495

Defending force 7494 troops, 31 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 176

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 531

Japanese adjusted defense: 87

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Sorong !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)
preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3207 casualties reported
Squads: 38 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 74 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 32 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 22 (21 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Allied ground losses:
121 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
2/9th Armoured Regiment
32nd Infantry Division
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
1st Medium Regiment
I US Corps
2nd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
16th GEACPS Brigade
3rd JNAF AF Unit
58th JNAF AF Unit

All of my night bombers tasked to hit the airfield at Truk got lost on the way and no attacks were made.

I bombed the troops two hexes SE of Chiang Mai

[Nomad]

January 13, 1944

Not much. I bombed a number of troops in China and Burma.

Units advancing toward Bangkok, Tavoy, and Rahaeng.

Recon of Rahaeng show a lot of troops there. I do not want to cross the river into
a large nest of enemy troops. I will look to see if I can cut them off from suppy,
bomb them and then enter from the NE, the only hex side that is not a river.

[Nomad]

January 14, 1944

Not much exciting. I landed a small force on Weigeo, two hexes NW of Sorong. Just expanding some where possible.

Some bombing by both sides in China.

[Nomad]

January 15, 1944

Not much. Weigeo flipped before combat. Some bombing, Truk and Uttaradit hit by heavy bombers.

[Nomad]

January 16, 1944

SS Snapper hit an xAK, might sink later.

Sub attack near Swatow at 79,66

Japanese Ships
xAK Yuri Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
xAK Toyu Maru
xAK Bandoeng Maru
xAK Azuchi Maru
PB CHa-23

Allied Ships
SS Snapper

SS Snapper launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Yuri Maru
Snapper diving deep ....
PB CHa-23 fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB CHa-23 fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB CHa-23 fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB CHa-23 fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB CHa-23 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

Bombers hit the airfields at Truk, some are now switching to port attack, airfield damage shows 100

Heavy bombers hit Uttaradit

There is a Japanese division NE of Kwangchowan in the open and I have medium bombers attacking

Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 73,59 , near Kwangchowan

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 25

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 39000 feet



---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 73,59 , near Kwangchowan

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 35
B-25B Mitchell x 15
B-26 Marauder x 32
P-38E Lightning x 25

Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 9 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
387 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-26 Marauder bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x A-20G Havoc bombing and strafing from low level
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-26 Marauder bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-25B Mitchell bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-25B Mitchell bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x A-20G Havoc bombing and strafing from low level
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
14 x B-26 Marauder bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x A-20G Havoc bombing and strafing from low level
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb



---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 73,59 , near Kwangchowan

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-26 Marauder x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-26 Marauder bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb



---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 73,59 , near Kwangchowan

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25B Mitchell x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25B Mitchell bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

The sunk ship list is now showing I have sunk 5 CV and 2 CVLs.

[Nomad]

January 17, 1944

The 503rd Parachute Rgt lands and takes Babo, a USN Seabee unit also lands to construct the airfield

Troops cross the river NE of Uttaradit and route the defenders

Ground combat at 59,55 (near Uttaradit)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 37570 troops, 405 guns, 191 vehicles, Assault Value = 1381

Defending force 3677 troops, 46 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 132

Allied adjusted assault: 1451

Japanese adjusted defense: 121

Allied assault odds: 11 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2212 casualties reported
Squads: 71 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 63 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 24 (19 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Units retreated 4

Allied ground losses:
357 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
7th Indian Division
1st New Chinese Corps
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
1st INA Subhas Regiment
3rd INA Azad Regiment
90th JAAF AF Bn

These units will take up station here and wait for both reinforcements and developments.
There are a lot of units shown in the Uttaradit hex, I do not want to cross a river into that.

Bombers hit numerous locations, including Truk and Pianolike.

[Nomad]

January 18, 1944

Not much, bombing here and there. Another turn for repairs, R&R, and reorganizing.

[Nomad]

I am going to close this AAR.

I now realize that my opponent has done something that I consider very sleazy and this will be my final game against this opponent.

[CaptBeefheart]

Whoa. Sorry to see this happen. You've been doing well. Care to elaborate?

Cheers,
CB

[Nomad]

Let me explain some and see if maybe I have over reacted.

I do like to play without any house rules and this game is being played with no house rules.

However, I do try and not do things that are in my mind sleazy, games, whatever word comes to mind.

I try and only do things that either have some kind of counter of that both sides can employ, although sometimes
one side of the other gets to do it first and the other side later.

My opponent, very obviously did not capture Batan Island until February 1944 in order to trigger his Kamikazes on 1/1/44.
There is no way I could prevent this and I had/have no real counter to it. This is what has triggered my anger.

Have I over reacted? I am not sure. Since there are no house rules, I have not said anything to my opponent and of course
there is no way to undo what he has done.

[DesertWolf101]

Hi Nomad,

I don't think I can say whether you overreacted here. The game is between you two so ultimately only you can figure out whether you can play with each other. However, in terms of the action your opponent took as you explain it - yes, I would consider that to be extremely gamey and I would personally be very frustrated as well. I personally prefer to play with a set of house rules, but the reality is unless you write an entire pamphlet (and who wants to do that!), house rules are not going to suffice to cover every potential manner by which a player could abuse the game. So in addition to a small set of house rules, I like to find players that are naturally inclined towards self-policing rather than players who like to abuse the game's inherent weaknesses for advantage.

[Dewey169]

Let me explain some and see if maybe I have over reacted.

I do like to play without any house rules and this game is being played with no house rules.

However, I do try and not do things that are in my mind sleazy, games, whatever word comes to mind.

I try and only do things that either have some kind of counter of that both sides can employ, although sometimes
one side of the other gets to do it first and the other side later.

My opponent, very obviously did not capture Batan Island until February 1944 in order to trigger his Kamikazes on 1/1/44.
There is no way I could prevent this and I had/have no real counter to it. This is what has triggered my anger.

Have I over reacted? I am not sure. Since there are no house rules, I have not said anything to my opponent and of course
there is no way to undo what he has done.

To me this is a flaw in the gameplay. Because of the way this currently works I can see arguments that you both were playing fairly. True, he waited until 02/44 to seize it but if it poses no significant reward or threat to him early on when should he take it absent of a house rule? And this has probably been an issue for other PBEM games when you don’t have an HR for it. That said, to me the existence of a bypassed allied base from the start of the war should not trigger Kamikazes. I really don’t understand why this was coded the way it was. To me, Kamikazes should only be triggered when the allied player takes a Japanese position within that triggering zone.

The other thing is you said you don’t normally have HR. That kinda opens you up to this as you both seem to be veteran players and this has been this way for a while. And I respect how you play but not privi to what you two discussed in the beginning….

Maybe you and opponent can discuss a compromise because he clearly knows about the flaw in the gameplay but the devs shouldn’t have coded this in this way that requires a HR to be historically accurate. Since you guys are playing with variants you could state the case there quite a lot of things to consider at the start that you didn’t think about needing a hr for this. after all this game is massively detailed, has its own set of quirks and throw variants into the mix and that’s quite a lot things to keep in mind at the start. I don’t recall if this is rematch. If so you could say you played it historically and he should realize you did. If you guys were gonna play again after flipping sides tell him how you’d play Kamikazes.. Hopefully you two can find a workable solution as I do like following along.

Plus this should be forwarded to devs as bug as maybe it could be fixed before they ever get final release out. If that day ever comes…

[Nomad]

One thing I do not know about is how effective kamikazes are. I know that when I get close to the Home Islands and lots and lots of large airbases they become a real problem. But I am unsure about how much
of a problem they will impose in the Marianas. I have never gotten past mid 1944 and no kamikazes were used against me.

Any ideas on that score?

[Cheesesteak]

I can't speak to the efficacy of kamikaze, but would say you are fairly justified in your frustration. Speaking personally, HR number 1 is "don't be a d*ck". Interpretations vary, but something like this seems to fail the sniff test. Not to say you can't have a no-holds-barred slugfest, but the vast majority of PBEM these days are not so. Just my two digital cents.

[Nomad]

Frustration is certainly one thing that is paramount. I have started to change my whole game plan and I do not like it. I have started to change from War in the Pacific to Land war in Asia. Instead of taking islands and such in the Pacific, I am sending troops, more air units to India to be used to take Indochina and Malaya. I am not sure what else I might do on that side of the map.

Something I would not normally do, but I am considering is to send my considerable CV assets to attack Palembang. It would be a quick in and out mission, launching something on the order of 800 SBDs and 500 TBs supported by 800-900 Corsair fighters. I think I could lay waste to the oilfields and refineries there.

B-29s are coming in next month so night raids will be available to me.

[Nomad]

I have a problem and I am wondering if anyone has an idea
In the picture I have Udon highlighted and I have pressed the 5 key to show supply paths
As can be seen there is no supply path along the railroad from Nakhon Ratchasima to Udon Thani.
I marched a unit along that path to secure Udon Thani, but I am not getting much supply to Udon Thani.
There are no Japanese units in any of the hexes, the unit in the hex SW of Udon Thani is in strategic mode
and has moved from Ayuthia to there along the railroad.
Also this is not the first turn I noticed this, but at least a few turns.

440307 supply to Udon.png (1.32 MiB) Viewed 996 times

[BBfanboy]

I can only guess that there is something on the left side of the screen (or beyond) that has a stronger pull on supply. For example, if there was recent combat at Ayuthia, the average supply consumption would be high there and that's where the supply would go. Over time that will weaken. Sometimes you need to "prime the pump" by using supply at the desired destination, so starting construction at Udon Thani should increase the supply pull. You may have to fly in the supply to do this.

Edit to add: Or you could just rail an HQ out there.

[Nomad]

The problem is that there are no yellow dots in the hexes on the rail line. I am getting supply into Udon, but it is slow in arriving. Ubon is getting supply, in fact more than it can handle. I just thought I would put it out and see if anyone has seen something like this before. I hope to get it cleared up soon, my intention is to use this as another conduit to bring supply and troops into China. I do have 270,000 supply in China now and it is growing using the route through Paoshan, but that includes a lot of minor roads and is slow.

[BBfanboy]

In non-PBEM games the 5 key brings up numbers that indicate the potential for supply to reach a hex. In a PBEM they didn't want to show that much, so I think they chose to show the diamonds as the actual paths currently operating. The diamonds stop at Nakhon and all go south to Ubon. That suggests Ubon is drawing so hard that little of the supply goes on the northern route.

Another thought - both routes should have the minor rail line - did you try the Y key to see if the map data matches the Artwork for the rail line?