Another look At Captured Soviet AFV's

[tm1]

Hi
This has been brought up before and answered, but could 2 by 3 games look at captured AFV's and equipment again please ( I know your busy with bugs and enhancements for the game I understand ) in WITE1 there was a mechanic captured AFV"s and equipment to be modified for Axis use and while there is that same mechanic it seems smaller in scale in WITE2.
Here are 2 excerpts about The Axis using captured tanks and the facilities

German T-34.jpg (143.89 KiB) Viewed 757 times

This is from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34

German T - 34 1.jpg (106.33 KiB) Viewed 757 times

this is from jaegerplaatoon.net

https://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANKS6.htm



Also in WITE1 there was a mechanic for outdated AFV"s and equipment both Axis and Captured to be scrapped and turned into resource points for use to build other equipment and other stuff, I have looked in the WITE2 logistics screen and I can see no details for such a mechanic happening unless I missed it.

repairs.jpg (9.13 KiB) Viewed 757 times

In this screen shot we see 62 AFV's returned to the pool, what happen's to the 15 un repairable where do they go are they scrapped for resource points, melted down to be reproduced as Panzer Chassis, or have I over looked something in the logistics log.

Playing the STB campaign got 199 T-34 M1943's alone sitting in some motorpool rusting, melt them down for Tiger Chassis or scrap them for resource points or something useful.

I know its not a high priority subject but can it be put on the " look at list "

regards

[Wiedrock]

I won't say wether something is good/bad/balanced/historical or not, but some notes.

this is from jaegerplaatoon.net

" Despite the huge number of tanks that the Germans captured in Soviet Union, at any given time the number of captured T-34 tanks in German military does not seem to have surpassed few dozen. "

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Assuming they named all captured equipment with the (r) = russisch = russian, here is the list of all those equipments with starting dates and production numbers (note, overall 200 T-34 being converted from 1942-1945).

r-for-Russian.png (71.33 KiB) Viewed 714 times

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Here a list of all Foreign Medium Tanks-Types.

ForeignMediumTank76.png (131.22 KiB) Viewed 719 times

Units using those as a "OB requirement" may only be able to use those few tanks since there is no Substitution to this as you can see.

Here an Example of three OBs with Foreign Tanks (not sure if that's all) being used by several Units.

Units_using_OBs68+1936+1953.png (234.23 KiB) Viewed 719 times

Before seeing any Foreign/converted tanks in normal Divisions it appears that Divisions will use many other Types of Equipment first, as seen here the Foreign Medium Tanks are on place 4 of Substitutions.

Medium to Foreign Medium SUB4.png (146.03 KiB) Viewed 719 times

[Joel Billings]

The equipment is getting captured and then put into the pool as a foreign tank. In a recent test game I see 55 T-34s in the German pool. Unfortunately since no units call for this equipment, and the system for substituting elements probably requires a larger number before substitutes swap in, they aren't getting used. We'd probably have to set up some special code to force some swapping, but it's probably not going to be easy to do and likely wont' be satisfactory as you might end up with some captured tanks but not get larger numbers of regular tanks that they might replace. I'll discuss with the programmers, but it's likely that the small numbers involved make this very difficult. The Finnish armored division calls for T-34s and it uses the ones it gets, but it doesn't look like the Germans use their T-34s.

[tm1]

I won't say wether something is good/bad/balanced/historical or not, but some notes.

this is from jaegerplaatoon.net

" Despite the huge number of tanks that the Germans captured in Soviet Union, at any given time the number of captured T-34 tanks in German military does not seem to have surpassed few dozen. "

---

Assuming they named all captured equipment with the (r) = russisch = russian, here is the list of all those equipments with starting dates and production numbers (note, overall 200 T-34 being converted from 1942-1945).
r-for-Russian.png

---

Here a list of all Foreign Medium Tanks-Types.
ForeignMediumTank76.png

Units using those as a "OB requirement" may only be able to use those few tanks since there is no Substitution to this as you can see.

Here an Example of three OBs with Foreign Tanks (not sure if that's all) being used by several Units.
Units_using_OBs68+1936+1953.png

Before seeing any Foreign/converted tanks in normal Divisions it appears that Divisions will use many other Types of Equipment first, as seen here the Foreign Medium Tanks are on place 4 of Substitutions.
Medium to Foreign Medium SUB4.png

As always detail on data is meticulous and thorough, I enjoy reading your posts.


I have seen a lot of this information in game , but mainly concerned that what captured AFV's and equipment that goes into German units or sold to Axis Allies is but a drop in the ocean so to speak considering huge inventory The Germans captured.

regards

[tm1]

The equipment is getting captured and then put into the pool as a foreign tank. In a recent test game I see 55 T-34s in the German pool. Unfortunately since no units call for this equipment, and the system for substituting elements probably requires a larger number before substitutes swap in, they aren't getting used. We'd probably have to set up some special code to force some swapping, but it's probably not going to be easy to do and likely wont' be satisfactory as you might end up with some captured tanks but not get larger numbers of regular tanks that they might replace. I'll discuss with the programmers, but it's likely that the small numbers involved make this very difficult. The Finnish armored division calls for T-34s and it uses the ones it gets, but it doesn't look like the Germans use their T-34s.

Thank you for looking at my post and replying.
I to see that some T - 34s in my pool I have at least one unit with them so it works but not that much.
Your saying that it may take a special code to be added which may or may help, to this I would like to say firstly this game is fantastic and I don't want it go down a non or A historical path meaning don't ad some thing to force something to work if its not historical.
What I would like to see is

A. The foreign sales of captured equipment to Axis Allies there small compared to the captured stockpile the Germans ( nothing above historical levels of course )

B. Tweaking the system rather than trying to ad new code to get " German use of captured AFV's "

C. Adding the same system that was put in place from WITE1 that had a mechanic that allowed a percentage of both obsolete Axis AFV / equipment and Captured stuff, (say about 8 % like The Hiwi recruitment ) that was scrapped / melted down to create resource / armament points.

Surely historically the German war manufacturing industry had a portion of factories for the sole purpose of scrapping AFV's and equipment back into metal and steel to reproduce new equipment and vehicles chassis.

I don't know if it was implemented before or after 2 by 3 games were gracious enough to hand over the code to some modders but we had a game mechanic in WITE 1 where X amount of resource / armament points were used to break down outdated / captured stuff, I think the ratio was something like spend 1 point to get 2.5 points for scrapping per item. don't expect the entire inventory scrapped just a percentage

I don't have WITE1 on my computer anymore so I cant go looking for the full details.

Again thank you for looking at the post.
regards

[56ajax]

Maybe the scrapping hasn't started yet?

28.1.3. Scrapping of Obsolete Equipment
Equipment that is no longer produced will begin to be removed from the production
pool by scrapping after the last year of availability. Scrapping of obsolete equipment
does not happen unless the equipment is no longer in a unit and no longer in the
current TOE of a unit.
If these conditions are met, then an item can be scrapped. AFVs will not be
scrapped if they are being used by any units in the game.

[56ajax]

and if you look in the editor Tanks have a scrap year recorded against them.

2023-03-14_16h49_32.png (25.07 KiB) Viewed 483 times