Guys, I picked up the game yesterday and I am so fustrated I'm about to toss in the towel. I need some basic help. Here's the scoop, from an outsiders perspective, this game is totally mystifying. I've been in the tutorial trying it over and over. I get to the point where I call an attack on the first structure, destroy it and then I can't get to the move mode again. It just locks.
First question.... is there ANY tutorials or help sites for complete newbies? Mount Everest would be easier to climb I think.
Second question... I want to like this game sooo bad, the actual game steps I need though are a) is there a cancel? b) is there a list of commands still being processed? c) is there ANYTHING that tells you what the program is waiting for or doing while I'm watching it?
Sorry if this sounds like a downer, but I can't get the spin of this game and I want to. ANY help would be gratefully appreciated...
Ps And yes, I've read the boards here and I'm still stuck. I can't seem to get out of the attack mode when I want to move. Can't unlock a hex either once I've targeted something there. Sigh...
You came to the right place. Here are your answers.
answer 1) Yes, right here. Check the Titan arena forum especially read the stickies. Download the Deep core campaign in the Titan Map room.
Its a campaign for 'real' beginners.
answer 2) a) Cancel is F3. You may break commands using this.
b) Yes, every order takes time to complete in game seconds.
c) Yes, look at the bottom right of your screen it tells you whats going on in the game as shown on page 19 of the manual. You might also want to read about the action modes. Now that I'm flipping through the manual I'd advise you to just keep it handy while playing.
Bcasner wrote:
Ps And yes, I've read the boards here and I'm still stuck. I can't seem to get out of the attack mode when I want to move. Can't unlock a hex either once I've targeted something there. Sigh...
I will assume you are in attack mode and have destroyed the building.
You don't have to cancel the lock, just press the call move button and the move mode should be active. Select the move you would like to perform. Your attack mode should be active now. Select 'wait on move' or 'wait on unit -> foe'. Are you sure you did read the sticky turn sequence guide ?
Something that helped me in the begining was to realize that you can't click and select titans. The engince simply doesn't work that way. You will be prompted for an order when the previous action is finished.
There are two command modes attack and move. Their current status is shown in the lower right of the screen. EVERY command you can give is classified as either a move or an attack. You can perform at most two actions at any given time. One move and one Attack.
Orders are NOT carried out immediately. For example you enter the command to 'turn left', nothing appears to happen on the screen. What actually did happen was that you were automatically taken to the Attack menu. Here you can give an attack order like select target, fire a weapon, scan your targeted enemy, or you can add a swivel command to your move order(pretty nifty) so you can really twist around quickly. All of those are nice in the heat of combat, but what if you are just moving about the map looking for trouble? Well you can put the 'A'ttack menu on hold until it is needed. There are many ways to do this. Wait for new Enemy unit('Y' key) will only prompt you for an attack order when you have spotted an enemy titan. Wait on Call will prompt you when you 'call attack mode' from the move menu(NOTE this will interrupt ANY attack mode action in progress). Wait on Move will prompt you for an Attack order when the current move order is completed. In this case the current move order is a left turn, selecting Wait/move-> W/M will cause the game to advance in time until your left turn is completed. I find the game goes much faster when you learn to use the 'W'ait commands efficiently. If you were to select the 'M'--> Call Move command from the attack menu, you will break or interrupt your left turn. This will cause a skill check. If your jock fails the skill check, your titan will fall and take damage.
If your titan falls I found that crouching instead of standing is a MUCH better proposition. If you have the time to Crouch first, then finish Standing up you will be much more likely to succeed.
Hope that helps. I found that doing the tutorial, and then following up with the Deep Core Campaign while reading the tips other players post here in the forums helped me get 'up to speed' reasonably quickly.
Yes, once or twice during the tutorial, I too wondered why everything had stopped, it was normally because I'd given a move order, but it was wating for an attack order or vice versa.
One thing to be careful of, is giving wait orders in both attack and move, this can result in the titan/jock sitting there doing nothing until you press F3 and manually interupt things. The game warns you if you try to issue 'wait on call' orders in both menus, but other combinations can occasionally, depending on circumstance, result in the same thing.
ToS:WS is a TBS game. The main problem most new players have is understanding how TBS games work a little too well. Forget all (or at least most) of what you know about TBS games. There are no turns in ToS:WS.
But it's still a TBS game. Turn-Based Strategy? I guess, considering that it's definitely not played in real-time. A more accurate description would be to call it Time-Based Strategy. Don't pay attention to whose "turn" it is. Pay attention to whose time it is. Watch the game clock. Observe how many seconds it takes your titans to perform different actions and maneuvers. When one of your titans becomes active, it doesn't mean it's your turn. It means it's your time to decide what the active titan is going to do next.
This is the biggest hurdle I found while tutoring some of my friends who had never played the game before. Forget about "turns" in the traditional sense.
Once you get the hang of it, you will be hooked! The downside is it might ruin other similarly-themed TBS games for you. I tried to play Cyberstorm again the other day and just couldn't do it. :sleep:
Over to the right of the display at the bottom of the screen you'll see two lines that describe the current instruction being carried out for Move and Attack. It's always worth glancing at this when you've just been shown your next titan. For me, it's main uses are 1. when the Move menu has opened .. and I won't move (or perhaps just Walk) if there are only a few seconds until a scan is going to be completed ... and 2. (the other way round ..) when the Attack menu opens, and I can hold off the attack for a few seconds until my current move has finished (so I set my Attack to Wait on Move). This last has been helped immensely in WS by having the Use Weapon symbol highlit yellow when you're moving.
Is it normal for a starting out group in the Deep Core campaign not be able to hit anything very well? I understand my team are pure novices, (Like me!), but wow, I more often than not end up shooting myself.
Will they get better over time? And if I do manage to get any chance to upgrade my guys, what skills are the best to raise?
1) yes, its normal not to hit much when you're starting out. Make sure your pilots attack skills match the weapons in their allocated titan. But the enemies are weak so you shouldn't have to many problems with them. Try to avoid their charge.
2) You can increase your jocks experience in the HQ after beating a level. These are applied as development points and can directly affect the skills or attributes.
3)Skills require dps from their specific dp type. Movement DPs are used for Piloting skills etc,. . .
For increasing attributes you'll need the same amount of dps from all three dp categories. The attributes you'll want to increase depend upon what skills you've been improving or want to improve. You have total control over this. A mouse/hover shows what attributes affect that particular skill. pg 9 of the manual shows a screenshot of this.
I completely agree this is way overcomplex. It doesn't have to be. I understand what they are trying to achieve with the time but I can't tell what's going on or what phase it is. The displays are confusing. I'll try the Deep Core campaign. It's too bad they made it this complicated... not user friendly, not easily playable.
Going to have to trust the designers on this one. It's really not overcomplex, it's just very different and takes a little while to get the hang of. It's extremely rare to encounter something this diffentent that people haven't seen anything similiar in the past. Plz bare with it, it will come to you, and like everyone else that started this game you'll be hitting yourself in the head and going *duh, what was I thinking*[;)] Everyone here will gladly help anyone out till they get the 'lightbulb over the head'. The UI is very streamlined after you get the hang of the hotkeys, clicking with the mouse isn't as efficent and can seem unfriendly and complicated, but all the clicks are nessesary. Once you get the feel of the game I'd suggest get fimiliar with the hotkeys.
Power does not corrupt; It merely attracts the corruptable.
You have to get over the hurdle of thinking in terms of move, then attack, move then attack.
Everything is done at the same time.
Remember, there are no turns. You issue orders to your pilots, and the pilots execute them. When they are finished with the order, you are asked to give another.
Here's a short example of move. We'll leave attack out for right now.
Start game:
the titan is waiting for you to issue a move order. The move order possibilities are walk, run, walk backwards, swivel left or right, twist left or right, jump (if equipped), kneel, and wait. If you put the mouse over the appropriate button, you will see how long it takes for the pilot to complete that order.
for instance, walk may take 18 seconds, but run only takes 12. You decide to run.
You will not see anything happen until the game clock hits 12 seconds. Your titan will just stand there, not doing anything. Assuming you don't have any other titans, and you don't see any enemy, this will happen very quickly. at second 18, the titan animation will play, move into the next hex, and the move buttons will show up again. Now it's time to issue another move order. You decide to walk, which takes 18 seconds. Same cycle repeats itself.
Now let's throw in the attack feature. At start, your titan is in wait on new enemy mode. The attack mode will not come up until either you press call attack from the menu mode, or your pilot see's an enemy titan.
So, let's say that you complete your walk. The game clock now says 30. In 30 seconds, you have moved 600 meters. You decide to walk again, and click walk. Your attack is still set for wait on new enemy. At second number 32, an enemy titan walks into your line of sight. The game clock stops, and the attack buttons come up. You can now lock on the titan. The length of time this takes is dependent on scanner, computer, skill, and the enemy equipment and skill, but let's assume it takes 5 seconds. You click lock, then click the enemy, and the game clock resumes. Remember, your last move order was a walk, and it won't be completed until second 48, so your pilot is walking the titan to the next hex, and now you want him to lock. You can tell him to change his mind about walking by clicking the call move button, but this will force him to make a skill check. Let's assume you continue the move. The game clock resumes after you click on the titan you want to lock. At game second 37, the attack menu comes up again, prompting you for your next order. You decide to do and active scan. This takes your pilot 40 seconds. So you won't see anything happen now until game second 48, when the walk move is completed. You won't get another attack option until game second 77, when the scan is complete. You can press f3 and a menu will pop up, allowing you to cancel your walk or move, but remember that cancelling a move order results in a skill check to remain standing. Lets assume you continue the walk and scan. On game second 48, your titan finishes the move into the next hex and the clock stops, waiting for your order. You decide that you dont want to leave this hex until you see which way the enemy wants to go. So you need to tell you pilot to WAIT, the ON LOCKED foe, and your pilot will NOT MOVE until the enemy does. If the enemy is in a slow Titan, this may take a very long time. You can cancel the wait with F3, or on the next attack order you can call move. Breaking a wait does not require a skill check. So at game second 48, you went into wait on locked foe, and now the clock is ticking again, and you don't see anything happen until game second 77, unless the other Titan moves, but let's assume he doesn't. At second 77, your scan is complete, and a screen pops up telling you the results. It is now time to issue the next attack order, or call move if you choose to do so.
I hope this helps
By the way, once you get the hang of the time system, you can expect to be frustrated by the excellent AI and the seemingly useless pilots. You will find that the to-hit chances will be low, the enemy will never seem to miss while he closes in to close combat and beats you to a pulp. It's part of the learning curve. Try not to get too frustrated by it. This game is extremely deep, and it does take some effort to learn, but the effort pays off very well.
How do you order multiple mechs then and how do you know when who is going to do what? I guess you can string orders out. I'll try again, it's just sad I have to go home and go back to work studying this when it's supposed to be fun. Combat Mission has the same level of detail but an elegant command structure. This is just way too overcomplicated if you ask me.
Its not overcomplicated, its just completely different. Its like learning to drive a bicycle when you already know how to walk and crawl. Each child is angry and unpatient at first learning to drive a bike. As soon as it did learn the basics it will have more and more fun doing it. I prefer biking but can accept others who prefer to walk or crawl [;)]
The turn system is one of the best parts of TOS:WS but it gets a lot of bad press just because it is not vanilla turn based nor real time. We, the devs can live with this. We could have sold much more copies doing it like every other IGOUGO turn based game.
As a newbie who has just had his Eureka moment two days ago, I can say it all does make sense once you "get it". In particular, aku_djinn's question about "ordering multiple units" and "stringing together units" showns a mis-understanding of the underlying mechanics.
It is not IGOUGO, nor is it WEGO (which I believe Combat Mission is). You don't "string together" orders because there is no need to: as soon as the first order is completed, you are prompted for the next. The same with "multiple units": the order screen for each unit comes up as that unit becomes available to acept orders. Once it dawns on you, its actually a lot more flexible: you're not committed to action over long time chunks, and it is possible to cancel any action (although you waste the time accrued).
I'm sure as varrying degrees of grognards we all regularly study to play games: we learn weapon damage potentials, armor values, equipment functions, and optimal tactics. It is just that as experienced gamers, its been a long time since we had to spend significant time on MECHANICS!
That being said, I am having problems with the the coordination aspect of the game. Is there a way in the interface to determine what other units are in the process of doing? It seems that this information should be available on team mates very easily (a simple radio call) and even basic information on enemy units should be available (I should be able to tell if the unit is stationary or moving!). Is this information in the interface somewhere and I am missing it?
Hitting the '9' key gives a summary report of all team members movement and combat actions - including the game seconds in which the actions began and will end.
