No air interception - none

[ncc1701e]

I am running with 1.00.09 patch and I was thinking I was safe under the umbrella of several planes all in support mode and tracking enemy fleets (position 1).

Then, a Japanese carrier fleet came and no air interdiction were done at all.

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No air interception.JPG (157.38 KiB) Viewed 1416 times

[stjeand]

I did see the air attempt...but they did not spot me because I am wily.

Hopefully the message will get put in the Logs in the future.

[ncc1701e]

That's interesting. I agree that the log is indeed missing and would avoid the WTF reaction.

But, there are two other things I would like to bring:
1. Reconnaissance level of the friendly side
2. Reconnaissance level of the enemy side

I keep thinking of Midway. Why Midway? A Japanese carrier fleet coming near an US island with planes on top of it and with US carriers around. An island owned by USA so with search planes around to detect the fleet coming.

And then the game and its reconnaissance levels. The game says that the hex, where the Japanese carrier fleet was attacked, is having a reconnaissance level of high. This is the highest reconnaissance level on sea since very high is only reserved to land hexes.

And my planes are missing, failing to find the Japanese fleet. Interesting... WTF x 2

And, now the carrier interdiction. 6 CVs vs 4 CVs. I won't come back on the number of planes per CV. Oh yes I will come back to it. 6 * 6 = 36 vs 6 * 4 = 24 is not the same than 5 * 6 = 30 vs 6 * 4 = 24. If the Japanese had 5 planes per CV and not 6 like the US carriers, it would change things a little.

No no, in fact the real point is this one. My US carrier based planes are doing the carrier interdiction in an hex where reconnaissance is high for them. But, given the position of my fleet, I assume that for the Japanese side, my fleet is located in an hex where reconnaissance is low or very low. And yet, they have no problem to locate and destroy my carriers. Are they attacking in a reconnaissance low hex or high for them? Is it even taken into account?

So my land based planes are missing the Japanese carrier fleet in a reconnaissance high hex but this Japanese carrier based planes have no problem to locate and destroy my carrier fleet in a reconnaissance low hex.

Interesting...

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Recon high.JPG (82.3 KiB) Viewed 1360 times

[stjeand]

While I can not debate the result as it is clear...I also can't say much regarding the recon since I don't really know well enough how it works.

Regarding Midway, to me that was clearly an Ambush and a LOT of US luck. Their air did not attack in a single wave...it was what...5 or 6 waves which wore down the US defenses...added they caught the Japanese unprepared which should never have happened.

And in actuality the Lexington carried 78 and the Kaga 90...the Zui and Sho did carry the same as the Lexington though, whereas the Enterprise was more in the Kaga range...

But the CVs seem to be pretty random with air carried...based on class.

Much simpler to have a set value since many of the CVs had a LOT of air but most were just for backup...I suspect they had the aircraft just not the pilots to run the all in a safe manor.

IF you want to allow more air that could be with the tech level...and with that the ship would require major refits...one of my sticking points since CV repairs routinely took 6+ months of work not 2 weeks.

When the Zui and the Sho were damaged in the Battle of the Coral Sea they were out of action for a year while they were repaired and upgraded.

[ncc1701e]

Regarding Midway, to me that was clearly an Ambush and a LOT of US luck. Their air did not attack in a single wave...it was what...5 or 6 waves which wore down the US defenses...added they caught the Japanese unprepared which should never have happened.

This game is two weeks turn. So I do except 6, 7, 8 waves are indeed simulated in the combat results. Otherwise, this is a big flaw.

[stjeand]

It was actually you fleet that engaged mine...
We really need a fleet mode do not engage setting.

[ncc1701e]

And in actuality the Lexington carried 78 and the Kaga 90...the Zui and Sho did carry the same as the Lexington though, whereas the Enterprise was more in the Kaga range...

But the CVs seem to be pretty random with air carried...based on class.

Much simpler to have a set value since many of the CVs had a LOT of air but most were just for backup...I suspect they had the aircraft just not the pilots to run the all in a safe manor.

Well in all the games I have played about Pacific, in average, the Japanese carriers have less aircraft than the US ones. Take this specific battle, according to wikipedia:

USS Lexington (CV-2) - 78 aircraft
USS Yorktown (CV-5) - 90 aircraft
USS Enterprise (CV-6) - 80-90 aircraft
USS Hornet (CV-8) - 72 aircraft

78 + 90 + 80 + 72 = 320 planes

Akagi 66 (+25 spares)
Kaga 72 (+18 spares)
Zuikaku 72 (+12 spares)
Soryu 63 (+9 spares)
Junyo 48
Hiyo 53

66 + 72 + 72 + 63 + 48 + 53 = 374 planes

So, again in average, with 5 carriers the US must match the aircraft fleet of 6 Japanese carriers. This is why for me Japanese carriers must have 5 aircraft points and US carriers must have 6 aircraft points.

[stjeand]

I am good with doing that...
Flavor would be good to add to the game.

But I there are many other places that changes would need to be made if you want to dig down like this.

I understand simplifying things for certain units.
That is what was done for Units. A US armored division is just as strong as a German armored division even though the Sherman is basically a PZ III and the German main tank was the PZ IV.

Also lend lease.
Merchant marines have a 2 week shipping when that is WAY off...

It was 2 weeks to get from the US to the UK...THEN they have to get back so you need MM for a month just to ship to the UK once and start over.

From the US to Australia it would be twice that and triple that to get to India.
But the US can send resources there in 2 weeks when in reality it would be a 6 weeks just to get the lend lease there...
AND for China? Add another week at least since they have to get the resources to India then to China.

SO many things that could be played around with.

[stjeand]

Thinking more about this I believe it should be tied to technology level.

So 1939 CV is 5 air
1940 is 6 air
1942 is 7 air


And increasing a CVs technology level should take 6 months to refit.

Soryu 1939,
Kaga 1940,
Zuikaku 1941

US would have

Lexington 1940,
Enterprise 1941,
Essex 1942


Ships in production could be random level based upon what they are.


This is just an example..

[ncc1701e]

Yes plus the Fleet mode without interception mode would be nice.

[AlvaroSousa]

If I remember there is no land based air CAP.

I could never find an active land based air CAP in the history books.

[stjeand]

Land Based more flew recon until they found something then would fly.

But I have not read anything regarding land based CAP either.
Not to say it would not be possible but it was far from the norm.

[ncc1701e]

I was not speaking of land based air CAP but much more of naval air interdiction from land based bombers such as what was done at Midway.