TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.13 Download)

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OldCrowBalthazor
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Revised House Rules for MP Match between Duedman and OldCrowBalthazor.
These are firm but may be amended as play goes :)

WiE-TRP HOUSE RULES revised 4-23-23

1) No War Dec of USSR before April 1941 unless USSR mobilization reaches 90%

2) No Allied ships may ever use Kiel Canal. Allied land units may land and block.

3) No German attack on Low Countries till April 1940

4) Strategic Bombers can only attack a resource 1 time per turn. They may attack 2x
otherwise.

5) Finnish units may not enter any land hexes south of Riga-Moscow-Perm line. Finnish unit can enter anywhere in Norway and Sweden.

6) No Hungarian units may enter Rumania before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania
No Rumanian units in Hungary before Barbarossa if German DC 2nd Vienna Award grants Hungary the Romanian part of Transylvania.

7) No Allied 'Scando Gambit' on Oslo, Norway or Copenhagen, Denmark while those
two countries are neutral and or until France falls.

8) Special Forces/Marines special rule. Once amphibious landed SF units may reload by finding a port or wait 5 turns from a non port coastal hex.

9) No Diplo into Majors-Redundant Mod doesn't allow.

10) No Diplo in the Balkans until Barbarossa started.

11) No Allied blocking of Gibraltar travel hexes (can put ships all around them but not right onto them)

12) Italian Navy is restricted to the Med until they are at war. Italian transports can go out if they are destined for Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and go straight there while Italy is neutral. No spotting with them.

13) Neutral Vichy Naval Vessels restricted to 6 hexes from Vichy France ports.
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Their is no neutral Vichy Navy FYI.

Thet get a small one once at 100% war entry

Another house rule, only subs can use the pass through Gibraltar unless your side controls it.
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OldCrowBalthazor
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:54 am Their is no neutral Vichy Navy FYI.

Thet get a small one once at 100% war entry

Another house rule, only subs can use the pass through Gibraltar unless your side controls it.
Then you must of made changes with Vichy since I played Unfortunate Son with version 9.7.
When Vichy France was neutral, he was running a bunch of neutral Vichy French vessels around the Med spotting for the Italians. I lost a few RN ships because of that gamey nonsense, and asked him to stop...so we made the rule I posted.

If things are different with Ver 1.2.2 then we can strike it.
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

OldCrowBalthazor wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:22 am
Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:54 am Their is no neutral Vichy Navy FYI.

Thet get a small one once at 100% war entry

Another house rule, only subs can use the pass through Gibraltar unless your side controls it.
Then you must of made changes with Vichy since I played Unfortunate Son with version 9.7.
When Vichy France was neutral, he was running a bunch of neutral Vichy French vessels around the Med spotting for the Italians. I lost a few RN ships because of that gamey nonsense, and asked him to stop...so we made the rule I posted.

If things are different with Ver 1.2.2 then we can strike it.
The navy is given to them if they get 100% mobilization.

I made the change specifically because of your game and awesome videos :)
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Elessar2
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Elessar2 »

The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Elessar2 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:48 pm The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
I do not believe the editor allows that. Do not recall any setting that if you rebase all your AP is used up.
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Taxman66
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Taxman66 »

On a couple of different subjects:
1) I applaud the combat changes involving Infantry units! They no longer feel like nothing but anvils.

2) I'm not a fan of the increased Damage Evasions mechanics. I understand the idea and principle, but some examples in play have been irksome or worse. For example:
a) Bombers avoiding damage from intercepting fighters, but then damage the fighters.
b) Air units 'Evading' attacks from ground units. It is incredibly frustrating to work out an attack to get an exploiting Armour unit next to a damn air unit only to whiff due to 'Damage Evaded'.
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Taxman66 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 pm On a couple of different subjects:
1) I applaud the combat changes involving Infantry units! They no longer feel like nothing but anvils.

2) I'm not a fan of the increased Damage Evasions mechanics. I understand the idea and principle, but some examples in play have been irksome or worse. For example:
a) Bombers avoiding damage from intercepting fighters, but then damage the fighters.
b) Air units 'Evading' attacks from ground units. It is incredibly frustrating to work out an attack to get an exploiting Armour unit next to a damn air unit only to whiff due to 'Damage Evaded'.
Unfortunately this is a side effect of the ability for AA units to hit air units. It counts as a ground unit and therefore all ground units.
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Elessar2
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Elessar2 »

Sorry Lothos-my post was intended for the devs, forgot to tag it as such.
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OldCrowBalthazor
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Lothos a question regarding Vigo and the Canaries Ports.

1) Did you set up an exclusion zone similar to the Italian Adriatic for Vigo Port and the Canary Island port in case the German sides decides to get them?

If so Allied planners would like to know for the future haha.
If not I may HouseRule that the Allies can't bomb them or reduce the ports. (Its Spanish Territory and the bases were just leased I believe.

Anyways would like to know soon.

Btw Duedman and I are out of the Phoney WAR and into June 1940. Great action and fun for both sides as the War expands. 😎
We will be putting up YT announcements soon for schedules etc. I can say both of us will be putting up daily turns. If this goes to 1945 then its 5 months of content! Tally-Ho!
Cheers
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Taxman66
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Taxman66 »

Yes, there are exclusion zones (2 hexes away) around the Spanish ports.

However, they don't prevent spotting or air attacks from CV/CVLs outside the zones.
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by BillRunacre »

Elessar2 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:48 pm The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
Hi

Please can you explain in more detail the issue(s) this is seeking to reduce or eliminate?

Thanks
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Duedman
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Duedman »

Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:57 pm
Elessar2 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:48 pm The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
I do not believe the editor allows that. Do not recall any setting that if you rebase all your AP is used up.
While I very much like your approach to force investment in air superiority the mod does not do that at all. At least in regards to scouting.
With the initial "stealth scouting" set to 5 hexes It is even worse than in Vanilla. By far.
Elessar2's proposal would be nice but seems to be not possible.

To me, the very obvious solution would be, to reduce passive spotting for aircraft to 1 and increase engagement range.
You want to see something? Fly a mission! Risk encountering enemy Air / AA

As of now, you can not even rule out stealth / passive spotting via houserule. Because passive spotting is 5 and misson range is 5 as well. So.... you can not fly missions further than you are passively spotting already anyway.

Leads to the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. Soviets will love it. Level 0 fighters scouting the entire enemy front with no risk at all.
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

OldCrowBalthazor wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:27 am Lothos a question regarding Vigo and the Canaries Ports.

1) Did you set up an exclusion zone similar to the Italian Adriatic for Vigo Port and the Canary Island port in case the German sides decides to get them?

If so Allied planners would like to know for the future haha.
If not I may HouseRule that the Allies can't bomb them or reduce the ports. (Its Spanish Territory and the bases were just leased I believe.

Anyways would like to know soon.

Btw Duedman and I are out of the Phoney WAR and into June 1940. Great action and fun for both sides as the War expands. 😎
We will be putting up YT announcements soon for schedules etc. I can say both of us will be putting up daily turns. If this goes to 1945 then its 5 months of content! Tally-Ho!
Cheers
Yes, he will see a red zone around them with a Tooltip that says do not go in that area or he will suffer serious damage and it will be allot of damage. I think it is up to 6 points per ship (it is a bit random). So it's best not to go in!
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Duedman wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:07 pm
Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:57 pm
Elessar2 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:48 pm The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
I do not believe the editor allows that. Do not recall any setting that if you rebase all your AP is used up.
While I very much like your approach to force investment in air superiority the mod does not do that at all. At least in regards to scouting.
With the initial "stealth scouting" set to 5 hexes It is even worse than in Vanilla. By far.
Elessar2's proposal would be nice but seems to be not possible.

To me, the very obvious solution would be, to reduce passive spotting for aircraft to 1 and increase engagement range.
You want to see something? Fly a mission! Risk encountering enemy Air / AA

As of now, you can not even rule out stealth / passive spotting via houserule. Because passive spotting is 5 and misson range is 5 as well. So.... you can not fly missions further than you are passively spotting already anyway.

Leads to the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. Soviets will love it. Level 0 fighters scouting the entire enemy front with no risk at all.
I am sorry but I disagree, if you fly a mission then the aircraft can no longer be used for escorting etc... It should not take an entire air wing to launch a scout mission.
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Duedman »

Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:57 pm

I am sorry but I disagree, if you fly a mission then the aircraft can no longer be used for escorting etc... It should not take an entire air wing to launch a scout mission.
I might be wrong here but I'm pretty sure fighters CAN still be used for escort after flying their active misson.
They can fly 3 times during the players turn. 1 Active mission + 2 Escort missions. If the unit does not drop below 5. Then no more escorts of course.
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Duedman »

BillRunacre wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:12 pm
Elessar2 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:48 pm The rebasing/stealth scouting issue isn't the number of Action Points per se, but more the ability to rebase twice in the same turn. Lower the number of AP to zero after the first rebasing, problem solved. This would also reduce/eliminate the silly practice of using air units to swap ground units into rough terrain. [You could give air 1 remaining AP if the devs so desire]
Hi

Please can you explain in more detail the issue(s) this is seeking to reduce or eliminate?

Thanks
Hi Bill, Elessar is thinking about a solution to reduce passive/stealth spotting by flying a fighter unit to the front and then retreating it. Therefore revealing FoW without any risk.
His suggestion is to lower the remaining AP of a fighter after his first move to 0 or 1
So you can passively spot but then your fighter would be stuck at the front.

I made a picture of current passive spotting. Although in TRP Mod it is initially higher than vanilla but will not increase with LR tech. Red circle was where the fighter went, Yellow is the area he revealed before flying back for his afternoon beer.
2023_04_24_18_39_23_2023_04_24_18_36_41_NVIDIA_GeForce_Overlay.jpg_Fotos.jpg
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Duedman wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:34 pm
Lothos wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:57 pm

I am sorry but I disagree, if you fly a mission then the aircraft can no longer be used for escorting etc... It should not take an entire air wing to launch a scout mission.
I might be wrong here but I'm pretty sure fighters CAN still be used for escort after flying their active misson.
They can fly 3 times during the players turn. 1 Active mission + 2 Escort missions. If the unit does not drop below 5. Then no more escorts of course.
You are incorrect

If they fly an active mission they do not get any escort missions.
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Duedman »

Lothos wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:47 pm You are incorrect

If they fly an active mission they do not get any escort missions.
No. I just tested ingame. If you scout first, u got 1 escort mission left (so I was not entirely correct).
If you escort 2 times, you can still fly an active mission.
2023-04-24 20_02_30-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg
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2023-04-24 19_56_25-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg
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Lothos
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Re: TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.2.2 Download)

Post by Lothos »

Duedman wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:01 pm
Lothos wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:47 pm You are incorrect

If they fly an active mission they do not get any escort missions.
No. I just tested ingame. If you scout first, u got 1 escort mission left (so I was not entirely correct).
If you escort 2 times, you can still fly an active mission.
2023-04-24 20_02_30-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg
2023-04-24 19_56_25-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg
I appreciate you taking the time on this; however, I disagree and won't be changing it sorry.
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