What to do as Axis in 43 - withdraw to a short line (gamey)?

[Cavalry Corp]

Well... we have a new PBEM campaign going (Aug42) no early end BUT what do the axis do in 43 . Seems no point in advancing when historically they need to lay low the bear to face the West . But in this game what should I do in 43. Temptation is to withdraw to a very short line and await the soviet 43/44 Winter offensive as in my last game. That would never be on the agenda and a bit gamey.

If I have missed a big point please advise. I have 600 VP I think Sebastopol still to go but have Leningrad.

Thoughts please.

[exalted]

Some of the most interesting offensive can be done summer 43 but I'd guess it depends on the size of the soviet army.

Keeping as much ground as possible and retreating as slowly as possibly is certainly the thing to do against the AI only giving up ground that can't be defended. Space is time and you need to make the soviet work for every advance, that isn't suicide.

[carlhebert]

I think you're on to something here. I suggest withdrawing to defensible terrain in Western Ukraine and Eastern Poland to await the Soviet counteroffensive. You could also shift almost all of your air force and panzer divisions to Western Europe, where you will need them more. By the time the Soviets have caught up to you, your line will be almost impenetrable.

[MarkShot]

This is in part of a scoring methodology issue. You score when leaving vacated objectives behind you, but you are not penalized for vacated objectives in front of you until the enemy arrives to flip ownership.

A tough game design problem, since maybe you should be penalized when you no longer have enough forces in an area to pose a credible threat. But that is a harder condition to evaluated than flipping a hex.

[Cavalry Corp]

This is PBEM

Well Carl - now you may know a plan! Seems pretty gamey to me to withdraw but the line will be so over extended by winter 43.

Game design needs look at. I am not sure the campaigns have been thought out very well that start in 41. Not even sure I like this death roll at end of 44 - I want to continue to the end even if I am due a victory in Dec 44.

Maybe the VP need changing based on time an objective is held as well a kind of bonus points system. Not sure I like the way we are encouraged to withdraw in 43. For certain there are good possibilities to bite pieces of the soviet bear in 43. It would be most unrealistic to assume the Germans would make a voluntary withdrawal. And yes if we do it will be impregnable.

[Jango32]

If industry and resources mattered then holding on to areas like Ukraine and the Caucasus even in 1943 for a little while longer might be incentivized. Ditto for the Soviets not to retreat too quickly early on.

[carlhebert]

But if the Axis withdraws in 1942 to a defensible line somewhere to the west to avoid being overextended, doesn't that hand the Soviets bonus points for the early recapture of victory locations? Besides that, I think the Axis needs to trade space for time. I am not sure how well the Axis would do with a full-strength Red Army on their doorstep in 1943.

[Veterin]

This wouldn't work against a human player. Probably effective vs AI..

[goldenlion]

This wouldn't work against a human player. Probably effective vs AI..

Against AI, I was able to breakthrough in 1943 and go on to win as Axis.
Which I think seems to be a bit unique - seems I usually hear about an early axis win or slow grinding defeat in '43 and beyond. (I bet it'd be even way more unique against a human opponent though).

I think my result was aided by the latest patches' cpp expenditure rules - where if you get high final combat odds, you use less cpp points.

Point being, don't automatically resign yourself to a defensive posture in '43!

[Cavalry Corp]

Gold Lion that is not my way I do like a few huge backhand blows in 43.

right now its late Aug 42 and against a reasonably competent human we are grinding to a halt - cannot get over the Don in the south but have captured Leningrad in late July 42 BUT can still not totally isolate Sebastopol every turn.

In my last game I pushed on Moscow in summer 43 but the losses made me collapse in winter 43. Combined with NM reduction.

cav