[B1711] Chicken Kiev - Kiev's Sonar should be disabled

[lumiere]

Recently I first played "Chicken Kiev" and got crazy when I get torpedoed at 1.2nm from Kiev (you must get within 1nm stern of Kiev) after long, long stalking.

I test and noticed that Swiftsure will always detected (even at 0kt) when it comes within 1nm from Kiev making the scenario virtually unpassable. Does something broken?

Then I played CMANO version of same scenario, and noticed that Kiev's sonars are intentionally disabled. This setting has not been inhered to CMO version and should be fixed. CMANO scenario file (upgraded to DB3K v478) attached. Thanks.

[lumiere]

Also in TSS scenario: In "Ground Pounder" Iran has bottom sonar. I think it's reasonable but I think it's too close to Asheville firing point (2nm, whire Miami firing point has 5.5nm from closest sonar), making Ashevill always detected (as reported in other thread).

[Quark73]

Recently I first played "Chicken Kiev" and got crazy when I get torpedoed at 1.2nm from Kiev (you must get within 1nm stern of Kiev) after long, long stalking.

For me it worked by sneaking into the baffles, closing up to almost 1 nm and getting out after the timer was done.

[Quark73]

Also in TSS scenario: In "Ground Pounder" Iran has bottom sonar. I think it's reasonable but I think it's too close to Asheville firing point (2nm, whire Miami firing point has 5.5nm from closest sonar), making Ashevill always detected (as reported in other thread).

I am not sure if it is intended that way, but you can stay all the time between the layers, even to receive the target reccon.

[Comodoro]

Are there many more scenarios that are mysteriously impracticable in the new CMO?

[Dimitris]

We apologise for the problem, and the degradation in gameplay experience because of it. We will do everything in our power to maintain the quality of this and the other TSS scenarios going forward.

[Lanzfeld]

So "Chicken Kiev" is broken?
No wonder I cannot ever complete this mission. They should fix this in a patch.

[Lanzfeld]

This mission sucks. I had to edit the files to "break" the Kiev's sonars myself. I was able to complete the mission after this. Why would you make a mission where the Kiev MUST be broken in order to complete the mission?
Seriously why would you sell this? Fix it first.
No more modules.

[Kushan04]

This mission sucks. I had to edit the files to "break" the Kiev's sonars myself. I was able to complete the mission after this. Why would you make a mission where the Kiev MUST be broken in order to complete the mission?
Seriously why would you sell this? Fix it first.
No more modules.

It would help if you reported things in the proper forum, Tech Support. These DLC specific sub forums do not get checked.

Updated scenario with the disabled sonars reapplied is attached. Scenario will be included in a future update.

[Dimitris]

Lanzfeld < We are sorry you feel that way. We have been very busy recently with fixing "core"/general gameplay & simulation issues, at the expense of scenario-specific things. Going forward we intend on placing greater emphasis on faster addressing of gameplay problems on official scenarios. We try.

Thanks again.

[Dimitris]

BTW:

Why would you make a mission where the Kiev MUST be broken in order to complete the mission?

That was always the design of this scenario. If the Kiev's VDS is operative, the Swiftsure simply cannot get close enough to photograph her keel without being counter-detected (their kit was/is not _that_ bad).

IRL the Kiev's VDS was almost certainly inoperative at the time, which allowed the British sub to get close enough. CMO does not currently model "deliberately inoperative" sensors (unless they are damaged/destroyed or cannot physically function, e.g. towed arrays at shallow waters), so the next best thing is to "damage" the VDS through ScenEdit or scripting.

Thanks.

[HalfLifeExpert]

BTW:

Why would you make a mission where the Kiev MUST be broken in order to complete the mission?

That was always the design of this scenario. If the Kiev's VDS is operative, the Swiftsure simply cannot get close enough to photograph her keel without being counter-detected (their kit was/is not _that_ bad).

IRL the Kiev's VDS was almost certainly inoperative at the time, which allowed the British sub to get close enough. CMO does not currently model "deliberately inoperative" sensors (unless they are damaged/destroyed or cannot physically function, e.g. towed arrays at shallow waters), so the next best thing is to "damage" the VDS through ScenEdit or scripting.

Thanks.

Good to know a corrected version of this scenario is coming down the pipe.

If I'm not mistaken, this scenario/real operation occurred during Kiev's sea trials or post-commissioning working up, so its completely believable that some of her more advanced systems like VDS were not functional yet, especially since she was the first of a brand new class of vessels that were pretty new for the Soviets.

[Comodoro]

We apologise for the problem, and the degradation in gameplay experience because of it. We will do everything in our power to maintain the quality of this and the other TSS scenarios going forward.

I want to deeply appreciate the effort that is being put into improving the game more and more, both in its possible core issues and in its overwhelming realism that, while highlighting the technical asymmetries of each asset at each time, forces the players to rethink their tactics to make it an operational challenge and not a "puzzle".

This is very noticeable in the final product and is resulting in something wonderful.

Thanks to all of you.

[Nikel]

A pair of links explaining what is known of this episode:


TWZ piece by Matus Smutny (Saturnax1).

https://www.twz.com/how-a-british-subma ... ft-carrier


A short video by Historically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3nYVJhdUz4

[TheKeeper]

This problem still present in public beta B1706. Played mission this morning and couldnt get behind Kiev, checked conditions in editor and sonars were operational. Downloaded fixed mission and completed in 5 minutes.

[Kushan04]

This problem still present in public beta B1706. Played mission this morning and couldnt get behind Kiev, checked conditions in editor and sonars were operational. Downloaded fixed mission and completed in 5 minutes.

Thanks. I just noticed there's a bug happening here. The ini file saves systems damage but that damage isn't being reapplied during the db update process. Whenever I've run the update process the the damage to the Kiev's sonar has been reset.

Logged 16904.