Nit Pickie Scenario changes

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orabera
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Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

I recently posted some some OB change recommendations for the Final Beta that may or may not appear and honestly are not nearly all of the OB/Map changes I use in my custom scenario. Most of them are very minor changes, just for flavor mostly, no where near updating the entire game and only those areas I've taken an interest in and researched. I'm very much an Allied/Good Guys Fan Boy, I've made no changes to the Japanese, or even looked at them in the editor.

I used scenario 1 from the recent Beta release to update. Scenario attached in zip file.

Highlights:

Revamped UK Malaya Command

Singapore docks
In the 1920's when Britain decided to built a major naval base at Singapore a 50,000 ton capacity floating dock was built in the Clyde and shipped in three parts to Singapore (Admiralty Floating Dock IX). In 1939 a 5,000 ton capacity floating dock was purchased from the Dutch East-Indes and relocated to Singapore (Admiralty Floating Dock X). Both have been added. The British sunk both when Singapore fell, the Japanese were able to eventually re-float and use both.

In 1938 the British completed construction of the largest graving dock (dry dock) in the world at that time in Singapore. The King George VI graving dock was 1,000 feet long, 130 feet wide and 35 foot deep. Iin the game Pearl Harbor has the dock capacity to handle the Yamato (100,000t capacity for 65,000t ship) this capacity in real life is split between two dry docks, the King George VI graving dock could and did handle 80,000t Queen Mary/Elizabeth ocean liners.

AA units
The British official campaign report shows the Malaya command had 70 Heavy (3.7"), 78 light (40mm) and 24 3" AA guns. I've moved all 3.7" and 3" AA guns and most of the 40mm and put them in the assorted AA units stationed at Singapore.
1st Hong Kong and Singapore Heavy AA Regiment - 24x3" AA guns (3 batteries of 8 guns each)
2nd Hong Kong and Singapore Heavy AA Regiment - 24x3.7" AA guns
3rd Hong Kong and Singapore Light AA Regiment - 24x40mm guns (unit only had 2 of 3 batteries, 12 guns each)
3rd Heavy AA Regiment RA - 22x3.7" guns (unit reportedly only had 22 guns)
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment - 24x3.7" AA guns
assigned to the 1st Indian AA (separate units in game, more flexibility to the player):
1st Indian Light AA Battery
5th Indian Light AA Battery
Eighteen guns instead of the normal 12 for each light AA battery, the Indians had reportedly manned 60 guns upon their arrival in Singapore.

This leaves another 18x40mm AA for the Singapore CD Fort.

New Zealand Pioneer Companies
It took forever, I was searching the wrong service, but I was finally able to find the True Unit Designator for the New Zealand Pioneer Companies, Royal New Zealand Air Force Aerodrome Construction squadrons. The one in Singapore was No.1 RZNAF Aerodrome Construction Squadron and the one in Auckland was No.2. I could not find True Unit Designator's for the other two and just went with No.3 and No.6. I did find one hint that they may have been the North Island and South Island RNZAF Aerodrome Constructions Squadrons.

Artillery
The British had seven Field Regiments and one Mountain Regiment in Malaya, one artillery regiment per Infantry brigade. Five Field regiments had 24 guns the other two had 16, the Mountain regiment had 24 guns. Using Wikipedia as my primary source for assignment I've assigned the eight regiments out to the infantry regiments. The five 24 gun Field regiment have 25pdr guns, the two 16 gun regiments have 4.5" Howitzers and the Mountain regiment has 3.7" Mountain Guns.

Volunteer forces
I used the excellent Malayan Volunteers Group web site (https://www.malayanvolunteersgroup.org.uk/) to update the various volunteer forces in Malaya.

Malaya Regiment
A regular army unit which initially consisted of just one Bn raised pre-war, it expanded to two Bns on 1 Dec 41. 1st Bn split off one company to serve as a nucleus of the new Bn. 1st Bn had three companies (27 Malay Inf Squads) and the 2nd should had two (18 Malay Inf Squads.).

Revamped UK Burma Command
My primary source here was the Burma Campaign website (http://www.rothwell.force9.co.uk/burmaweb/index.htm)

The Burma Rifles Regiment had been the 20th Burma Rifles Regiment of the Indian Army before the administration of Burma was split from India in 1937. On 7 Dec 14 the Burma Rifles Regiment consisted of 14 battalions, 8 (1-8) were regular army formations, the 9th was a holding bn, the 10th was training, and finally 11-14 were territorial bns. The eight regular army formations would have the same organization as any Indian infantry bn and since the British did not think the Burmese made good soldiers and did not begin recruiting them until around 1939, Burmese units were nearly 40% Indian. The four Territorial bns were under trained, under equipped and used only as Line-of-communication troops.

There also existed an Auxiliary Force of four infantry battalions (Railroad, Rangoon, Tenasserim and Upper Burma) and a small AA regiment. This being a British colony, the Territorial forces were Burmese while the auxiliary forces were primarily British, Anglo-Burmans and Anglo-Indians. The Railroad Auxiliary bn was spread along the rail lines. Lack of Training and under equipment similar to the Territorials.

Burma Infantry Division
I redid the organization and made it a regular three bde/three bn per bde organization (216 Burmese Infantry Squads, 108 Indian Infantry Squads). This left the 7th, 8th Burmese Rifles and 1st Bn KOYLI as extra bns.

When Burma was separated from Indian there were nine bns of Burmese Military Police, a paramilitary force used to maintain order and suppress Burmese independence movements. Six Bns became the Burmese Frontier Force and guarded the border regions. As tensions heightened with Japan, the Frontier Force organized five mobile detachments of various sizes that were assigned positions along the Thai/Chinese border to monitor. By the time war started the Frontier Force battalions were mere shells with just administrative staff and training centers. The Frontier Force was never organized as a single force, instead spread along the entire border as needed. They were intended to prevent minor border incursions, and harassing and slowing down major incursions. During the campaign they served as flank guards and reconnaissance units. When the war started the Frontier Force was approximately 75% Indian.

The other three Military Police bns remained as a paramilitary police, two bns were assigned to Rangoon and the other distributed up country to maintain order. This force was also mostly Indian.

23rd Australian Infantry Brigade
I have renamed the three 'Bird' units back to 2/21, 2/22 and 2/40 Australian Infantry and removed the attached artillery guns. I've added the 2/14th Field Regiment and the 14th Anti-tank company as parts of the 23rd Australian Brigade for reassembly. Both the 2/14th and the 14th remained at Darwin when the three infantry battalions were wisely deployed separately and widely for ease of destruction by the advancing Japanese.

Of course other changes here and there scatted everywhere. By the time anyone reads this, I will of course have made more changes.
AFD9-1.jpg
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Queen_Mary_in_Singapore_Gaving_Dock_Aug_1940.jpg
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The 80,000 ton Queen Mary in the KGVI graving dock for conversion to troop ship, August 1940
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JeffroK
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by JeffroK »

Some interesting info, but I fear you are simplifying some of the ad-hoc arrangements in place at the time.

eg: Sparrow Force was made up of 2/40 Bn, 2/1 Hvy Battery, 2/1 Fortress Signals, 2/1 Fort Coy, 75 Light Aid Detachment, AASC Sparrow det, Det 2/12 Field Ambulance, B Troop 18 AT Battery, Sec 2/11 Field Company.

So the devs went with a Sparrow Force unit rather than a 2/40 Bn unit which was missing vital support units.

Gull Force was 2/21 BN, C Troop 18 AT Battery, AASC Gull det, Det 2/12 Field Ambulance 104 Light Aid Detachment.

2/22

Likewise

1st Burma Division
OOB 7 December 1941

Maymyo Brigade (1st Burma Brigade)
2 Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
1st Burma Rifles
6th Burma Rifles
7th Burma Rifles
12th Mountain Battery
56th Field Company (Sappers & Miners)

Tenasserim Brigade (2nd Burma Brigade)
2nd Burma Rifles
4th Burma Rifles
5th Burma Rifles
8th Burma Rifles
2nd Mountain Battery
sec. Field Company

13th Indian Infantry Brigade
5/1st Punjab
2/7th Rajputs
1/18th Royal Garwahl Rifles
23rd Mountain Battery
5th Field Battery RA (Burma Auxiliary Force)

Other units in Burma

Rangoon Brigade
1st Gloucesters'
3rd Burma Rifles
Coast Defense Battery

16th Indian Infantry Brigade Group (17th Indian Infantry Divisions, 46 & 48(ex 19 Indian Div) Brigades in transit)
1st Royal Bn/9th Jats
4/12th Frontier Force Regiment
1/7th Gurkha Rifles
5th Mountain Battery
HQ 27th Mountain Rgt
50th Field Company (S&M)

Burma Frontier Force
Bhamo Battalion
Chin Hills Battalion
Myitkinya Battalion
Northern Shan States Battalion
Southern Shan States Battalion
Kokine Battalion
Reserve Battalion

5 seperate Garrison Companies

Burma Rifles (Territorial Force)
11th Burma Rifles
12th Burma Rifles
13th Burma Rifles (Southern Shan States)
14th Burma Rifles (Forming)

Burma Auxiliary Force
Rangoon Battalion
Upper Burma Battalion
Burma Railways Battalion
Tenasserim Battalion
1 Anti Aircraft Battalion (Forming)

Burma Rifles
9th Burma Rifles Battalion (Forming)
10th Burma Rifles Battalion (Forming)

3 Battalions of Armed Police.

By April 1942 the Division had eroded to:
1 Burma Brigade
2/7th Rajputs
1st Burma Rifles
2nd Burma Rifles
5th Burma Rifles

2 Burma Brigade
5/1st Punjab
7th Burma Rifles

13th Indian Infantry Brigade
1/8 Royal Garhwal Rifles

27th Mountain Regiment
2 Mountain Batttery
23 Mountain Battery
8 Anti Tank Battery

As the main Japanese attack didnt take place until mid January 1942 the structure and locations of units on 7/12/41 changed.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by John 3rd »

Nice Posts by both of you. Am curious as to the changes you made then to the actually base hex for Singers?

I mean changes to Supply/Fuel numbers, Port size, repair yards, heavy industry, etc...

Some of your OOB material is pretty interesting and I might add it to my BTS Scenarios. Have to weigh the Post after yours for what can be changed/added. Between the Storms starts with some LCU additions as well as more aircraft. Some of your details above are very useful along that line of thinking.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

John 3rd wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 1:58 pm Nice Posts by both of you. Am curious as to the changes you made then to the actually base hex for Singers?

I mean changes to Supply/Fuel numbers, Port size, repair yards, heavy industry, etc...

Some of your OOB material is pretty interesting and I might add it to my BTS Scenarios. Have to weigh the Post after yours for what can be changed/added. Between the Storms starts with some LCU additions as well as more aircraft. Some of your details above are very useful along that line of thinking.
I try to limit my changes to what can be confirmed. The original designers did a great job and none of my changes are intended to change the game, just add a bit more flavor.

I increased Singapore dockyard to 80 and added the two floating dockyards (50k and 5k). One of my changes to the release scenario was return all the floating dockyards. Thought about adding the repaired 50k and 5k floating dock yards to the Japanese OB at Singapore, just couldn't find a date for their return to service for the Japanese. The Japanese did better job putting them out of action at the end of the war, both were just scrapped.

Currently working on Australia and New Zealand order of battle. Very few changes to New Zealand, changed/added some unit disbanding dates. New Zealand's Pacific ground forces were pretty much disbanded by October 44 to provide replacements for the 2nd NZ Div in Italy. The original game left out the tanks for one of Australia's three Arm Div (three CMF Arm Rgt's which formed the 6th Arm Bde/2nd Arm Div, the two AIF Arm bde's went to the 1st and 3rd AD). Trying to completely separate the tanks that went to Australia from the tanks sent to India. By May/June 42 Australia had about 460 M3 Grant tanks and 757 by the end of the year, and around 400 M3 Stuarts by then also.

Just purchased the official History of The Fiji Military Forces 1939-45 and redid the Fiji forces a bit. Yep very minor, just flavor.

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Fijian Troops deploying to the Solomon Islands.
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orabera
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

I keep making little changes, enjoyable for me, like doing the research and discovering little bits here and there about the War in the Pacific.

Highlights:

US AAA Regiments: The original game uses two different OB for the US Coastal Artillery AA regiments, 2bn and 3bn. The 2bn represents the prewar Mobile AA regiment OB and the 3bn represents the Semi-mobile AA regiment. The original game has too many Mobile regiments, they were actually very few of them, the majority were Semi-Mobile. Changed the in game regiments to their historical OB. There were also a couple of regiments in game that were actually just an independent AA Bn. In April 1942 this all changed, every CA AA regiment was reorganized to 3bn organization, one AAA bn (37mm), one gun bn (3" or 90mm) and one search light bn. Then in early 43 the Army did completely away with the Regiment OB with fixed bn assignments and switched over to Group organization with varied numbers of independent bns assigned depending on the Group mission. At this time the Pacific theater also began receiving the 40mm gun to replace the 37mm. Groups assigned to defend a fixed position (port) typically had three bns (one AAA, two gun), Groups assigned to a Corps typically had four bns (three AAA and one gun). I've tried to replicate all this.

YP: I've tried to add Yard Patrol boat I could confirm, this adds about 50 or so appearing from Dec 41 through Dec 42. It appears the the majority of YP boats were civilian boats the Navy purchased and modified, most were converted fishing boats of between 100 and 300 tons with one 3" gun, 2 .5" MG and two DC racks, each with only two DCs. Late war these would change to three 20mm guns for some. The Navy apparently had two types of YP, the ocean going fishing boats used for area patrol and then smaller boats, 20-30 tons, used for patrolling the actual harbor. I did not add these, from the photos I found it appears most were not even armed with MGs. There was a third group, former Coast Guard boats purchased in the Twenties to enforce Prohibition. Navy purchase a few of these in the Thirties, these boats were about 75 tons, designed for open ocean work and armed with two .5 MGs and two DC rack each with just two DCs. Haven't decided yet whether to add these or not. Small number, but two were at Guam when the war started.

Yachts: The Navy did purchase some Yachts that could be reconfigured for Patrol duties, these fell into two groups; smaller yachts, 200-300 tons, numbered with prefix PYc (Patrol Yacht Coastal) armed with one 3" gun, two .5 MGs, and two DC racks, the other yachts 700-1200 tons, numbered PY (Patrol Yacht) armed with two 3" guns, four .5 MGs, two DC racks and one DC Y-rack. Speed of 12-14 knots. Added seven PY and ten PYc. These were used n a similar manner to the YP boats. The Isabel (PY-10 in Manila 7 Dec 41) was actually a Patrol Yacht, unique from the others, it was a fast yacht (28 knots) and had been purchased during WWI and converted to a quasi Destroyer. On 7 Dec 41 in was at sea returning to Manila from Cam Ranh Bay, in was on a some what convert mission to scout out Cam Ranh Bay and report on Japanese activities. The Navy had actually just purchased a yacht and a couple of small freighters in Manila and was setting them up for a full convert mission to do the same thing when the war started.

Also added the two Eagle boats left over from WWI, PE-32 in San Francisco and PE-57 in Kodiak (PE for Patrol Eagle, real designation).

Hopefully I have not bored anyone with all this. I find it interesting. :ugeek:

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orabera
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

There were actually eight Eagle boats active in the Navy during WWII. The other six were in the Atlantic and one, PE-56, mysteriously exploded and sank on 23 April 1945. At the time a Navy inquiry decided the boiler had exploded, in 2001 it was determined that it had been sunk by U-853, U-853 had been sunk on 6 May 1945 so the crew or the post patrol report was not available for post-war review.

Henry Ford's contribution to Naval architecture, truly ugly boats.

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Last edited by orabera on Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pnzrgnral
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by pnzrgnral »

orabera wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:53 pm I keep making little changes, enjoyable for me, like doing the research and discovering little bits here and there about the War in the Pacific.

Highlights:

US AAA Regiments: The original game uses two different OB for the US Coastal Artillery AA regiments, 2bn and 3bn. The 2bn represents the prewar Mobile AA regiment OB and the 3bn represents the Semi-mobile AA regiment. The original game has too many Mobile regiments, they were actually very few of them, the majority were Semi-Mobile. Changed the in game regiments to their historical OB. There were also a couple of regiments in game that were actually just an independent AA Bn. In April 1942 this all changed, every CA AA regiment was reorganized to 3bn organization, one AAA bn (37mm), one gun bn (3" or 90mm) and one search light bn. Then in early 43 the Army did completely away with the Regiment OB with fixed bn assignments and switched over to Group organization with varied numbers of independent bns assigned depending on the Group mission. At this time the Pacific theater also began receiving the 40mm gun to replace the 37mm. Groups assigned to defend a fixed position (port) typically had three bns (one AAA, two gun), Groups assigned to a Corps typically had four bns (three AAA and one gun). I've tried to replicate all this.

YP: I've tried to add Yard Patrol boat I could confirm, this adds about 50 or so appearing from Dec 41 through Dec 42. It appears the the majority of YP boats were civilian boats the Navy purchased and modified, most were converted fishing boats of between 100 and 300 tons with one 3" gun, 2 .5" MG and two DC racks, each with only two DCs. Late war these would change to three 20mm guns for some. The Navy apparently had two types of YP, the ocean going fishing boats used for area patrol and then smaller boats, 20-30 tons, used for patrolling the actual harbor. I did not add these, from the photos I found it appears most were not even armed with MGs. There was a third group, former Coast Guard boats purchased in the Twenties to enforce Prohibition. Navy purchase a few of these in the Thirties, these boats were about 75 tons, designed for open ocean work and armed with two .5 MGs and two DC rack each with just two DCs. Haven't decided yet whether to add these or not. Small number, but two were at Guam when the war started.

Yachts: The Navy did purchase some Yachts that could be reconfigured for Patrol duties, these fell into two groups; smaller yachts, 200-300 tons, numbered with prefix PYc (Patrol Yacht Coastal) armed with one 3" gun, two .5 MGs, and two DC racks, the other yachts 700-1200 tons, numbered PY (Patrol Yacht) armed with two 3" guns, four .5 MGs, two DC racks and one DC Y-rack. Speed of 12-14 knots. Added seven PY and ten PYc. These were used n a similar manner to the YP boats. The Isabel (PY-10 in Manila 7 Dec 41) was actually a Patrol Yacht, unique from the others, it was a fast yacht (28 knots) and had been purchased during WWI and converted to a quasi Destroyer. On 7 Dec 41 in was at sea returning to Manila from Cam Ranh Bay, in was on a some what convert mission to scout out Cam Ranh Bay and report on Japanese activities. The Navy had actually just purchased a yacht and a couple of small freighters in Manila and was setting them up for a full convert mission to do the same thing when the war started.

Also added the two Eagle boats left over from WWI, PE-32 in San Francisco and PE-57 in Kodiak (PE for Patrol Eagle, real designation).

Orabera, good stuff!
Regarding US Army AAA: I use Stanton's "Order of Battle US Amy World War II" as my primary US Army reference. I always play the Babes-B mod for historical accuracy and have done similar OOB changes to what you're doing(for my own mod). The WW2 US Army "group" unit designator (this is for folks who aren't aware) is nothing but a headquarters, comparable to regiment/brigade size, which coordinates the activities of "type" units in a given administrative area. So a group will have separate battalions attached and withdrawn as needed, given the circumstances. Babes-B uses combat engineer, AAA and field artillery groups as if their TOE was permanent. I've broken down the CE & FA units to battalions and deleted their respective groups, EXCEPT the AAA groups: there were just so many AAA battalions that served in the PTO/CBI that I just stayed with the AAA groups and didn't use individual battalions. I've used Stanton's to find all the AAA units which served in game, when disbanded, renamed from regiments to groups, etc. I've done the same with US Navy construction regiments - in real life they were just like US Army groups, nothing more than administrative HQ's, so I deleted all the construction regiments. Also in real life, the Navy had construction brigades, which controlled regiments - again, nothing more than HQ's.
Regarding YP's: There were two YP's at Guam on 7Dec41, both sunk. I've not researched YP's otherwise but you've given me incentive to do so! Cheers!
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by btd64 »

pnzrgnral wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:25 pm
orabera wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:53 pm I keep making little changes, enjoyable for me, like doing the research and discovering little bits here and there about the War in the Pacific.

Highlights:

US AAA Regiments: The original game uses two different OB for the US Coastal Artillery AA regiments, 2bn and 3bn. The 2bn represents the prewar Mobile AA regiment OB and the 3bn represents the Semi-mobile AA regiment. The original game has too many Mobile regiments, they were actually very few of them, the majority were Semi-Mobile. Changed the in game regiments to their historical OB. There were also a couple of regiments in game that were actually just an independent AA Bn. In April 1942 this all changed, every CA AA regiment was reorganized to 3bn organization, one AAA bn (37mm), one gun bn (3" or 90mm) and one search light bn. Then in early 43 the Army did completely away with the Regiment OB with fixed bn assignments and switched over to Group organization with varied numbers of independent bns assigned depending on the Group mission. At this time the Pacific theater also began receiving the 40mm gun to replace the 37mm. Groups assigned to defend a fixed position (port) typically had three bns (one AAA, two gun), Groups assigned to a Corps typically had four bns (three AAA and one gun). I've tried to replicate all this.

YP: I've tried to add Yard Patrol boat I could confirm, this adds about 50 or so appearing from Dec 41 through Dec 42. It appears the the majority of YP boats were civilian boats the Navy purchased and modified, most were converted fishing boats of between 100 and 300 tons with one 3" gun, 2 .5" MG and two DC racks, each with only two DCs. Late war these would change to three 20mm guns for some. The Navy apparently had two types of YP, the ocean going fishing boats used for area patrol and then smaller boats, 20-30 tons, used for patrolling the actual harbor. I did not add these, from the photos I found it appears most were not even armed with MGs. There was a third group, former Coast Guard boats purchased in the Twenties to enforce Prohibition. Navy purchase a few of these in the Thirties, these boats were about 75 tons, designed for open ocean work and armed with two .5 MGs and two DC rack each with just two DCs. Haven't decided yet whether to add these or not. Small number, but two were at Guam when the war started.

Yachts: The Navy did purchase some Yachts that could be reconfigured for Patrol duties, these fell into two groups; smaller yachts, 200-300 tons, numbered with prefix PYc (Patrol Yacht Coastal) armed with one 3" gun, two .5 MGs, and two DC racks, the other yachts 700-1200 tons, numbered PY (Patrol Yacht) armed with two 3" guns, four .5 MGs, two DC racks and one DC Y-rack. Speed of 12-14 knots. Added seven PY and ten PYc. These were used n a similar manner to the YP boats. The Isabel (PY-10 in Manila 7 Dec 41) was actually a Patrol Yacht, unique from the others, it was a fast yacht (28 knots) and had been purchased during WWI and converted to a quasi Destroyer. On 7 Dec 41 in was at sea returning to Manila from Cam Ranh Bay, in was on a some what convert mission to scout out Cam Ranh Bay and report on Japanese activities. The Navy had actually just purchased a yacht and a couple of small freighters in Manila and was setting them up for a full convert mission to do the same thing when the war started.

Also added the two Eagle boats left over from WWI, PE-32 in San Francisco and PE-57 in Kodiak (PE for Patrol Eagle, real designation).

Orabera, good stuff!
Regarding US Army AAA: I use Stanton's "Order of Battle US Amy World War II" as my primary US Army reference. I always play the Babes-B mod for historical accuracy and have done similar OOB changes to what you're doing(for my own mod). The WW2 US Army "group" unit designator (this is for folks who aren't aware) is nothing but a headquarters, comparable to regiment/brigade size, which coordinates the activities of "type" units in a given administrative area. So a group will have separate battalions attached and withdrawn as needed, given the circumstances. Babes-B uses combat engineer, AAA and field artillery groups as if their TOE was permanent. I've broken down the CE & FA units to battalions and deleted their respective groups, EXCEPT the AAA groups: there were just so many AAA battalions that served in the PTO/CBI that I just stayed with the AAA groups and didn't use individual battalions. I've used Stanton's to find all the AAA units which served in game, when disbanded, renamed from regiments to groups, etc. I've done the same with US Navy construction regiments - in real life they were just like US Army groups, nothing more than administrative HQ's, so I deleted all the construction regiments. Also in real life, the Navy had construction brigades, which controlled regiments - again, nothing more than HQ's.
Regarding YP's: There were two YP's at Guam on 7Dec41, both sunk. I've not researched YP's otherwise but you've given me incentive to do so! Cheers!
You should look at the RHS scenarios. The guy who did most of the work is sid....GP
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by Yaab »

Yep, check the RHS mod for expanded OOB, TOE and new bases. Makes your head spin.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 9:18 am Yep, check the RHS mod for expanded OOB, TOE and new bases. Makes your head spin.
I had looked at RHS once a while ago, I'll need to download it and look again, thanks!
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

pnzrgnral wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:25 pm Orabera, good stuff!
Regarding US Army AAA: I use Stanton's "Order of Battle US Amy World War II" as my primary US Army reference. I always play the Babes-B mod for historical accuracy and have done similar OOB changes to what you're doing(for my own mod). The WW2 US Army "group" unit designator (this is for folks who aren't aware) is nothing but a headquarters, comparable to regiment/brigade size, which coordinates the activities of "type" units in a given administrative area. So a group will have separate battalions attached and withdrawn as needed, given the circumstances. Babes-B uses combat engineer, AAA and field artillery groups as if their TOE was permanent. I've broken down the CE & FA units to battalions and deleted their respective groups, EXCEPT the AAA groups: there were just so many AAA battalions that served in the PTO/CBI that I just stayed with the AAA groups and didn't use individual battalions. I've used Stanton's to find all the AAA units which served in game, when disbanded, renamed from regiments to groups, etc. I've done the same with US Navy construction regiments - in real life they were just like US Army groups, nothing more than administrative HQ's, so I deleted all the construction regiments. Also in real life, the Navy had construction brigades, which controlled regiments - again, nothing more than HQ's.
Regarding YP's: There were two YP's at Guam on 7Dec41, both sunk. I've not researched YP's otherwise but you've given me incentive to do so! Cheers!
After I retired from the Army and got interested in strategic games the first book I purchased was Stanton's WWII, it is a great starter. I haven't decided if I want to add the entire inventory of AAA/Gun bns that arrived in 1943 and later.

If you don't have it, the Combat Studies Institute published a four volume series "US Army Order of Battle 1919-1941". It's free and available as download in PDF:
https://discover.dtic.mil/results/?q=US ... gsc.page=1
Last edited by orabera on Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HMAS Sydney and Kormoran

Post by orabera »

If you haven't noticed yet I did add a bit of alternate history to my scenario, the loss of HMAS Sydney on 19 Nov 1941 is a truly tragic story.

I've added it and the Kormoran patrolling around each other just off the coast of western Australia where they encountered each other historically. The Sydney usually finds the Kormoran on the 8th but I have seen happen on the 7th a couple of times. Sydney always wins, but there is a small chance it will take a beating from the Kormoran.

I was reminded to mention it by Drachinifel, his guide of the week posted today is about the Kormoran.

https://youtu.be/Kh4emgFCmmA

Kormoran in 1940.jpg
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HMAS Syndey in 1936.jpg
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

orabera wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:53 pm
YP: I've tried to add Yard Patrol boat I could confirm, this adds about 50 or so appearing from Dec 41 through Dec 42. It appears the the majority of YP boats were civilian boats the Navy purchased and modified, most were converted fishing boats of between 100 and 300 tons with one 3" gun, 2 .5" MG and two DC racks, each with only two DCs. Late war these would change to three 20mm guns for some. The Navy apparently had two types of YP, the ocean going fishing boats used for area patrol and then smaller boats, 20-30 tons, used for patrolling the actual harbor. I did not add these, from the photos I found it appears most were not even armed with MGs. There was a third group, former Coast Guard boats purchased in the Twenties to enforce Prohibition. Navy purchase a few of these in the Thirties, these boats were about 75 tons, designed for open ocean work and armed with two .5 MGs and two DC rack each with just two DCs. Haven't decided yet whether to add these or not. Small number, but two were at Guam when the war started.
Little typo, the little patrol boats the Navy acquired from the Coast Guard displaced only about 37 tons, not 75. They were 75 foot long, which is where they got their nickname "Six Bitters".

YP-16 and YP-17 were both stationed at Guam when the war started.

In the photo you can see the the DC racks at the rear with only 2 DC each. This was also the typical mounting used on YP from all the photos I've found.

YP9 in 1940.jpg
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by Cavalry Corp »

Thanks for the ARD info - I added them to my mod if you do not mind?

Cav
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Many of the things mentioned in this thread have been covered by existing mods more or less precisely, like DBB, RHS and my humble efforts. No need to reinvent the wheel, mod authors usually give permission to use their data if you ask nicely. If you extract the scenario files with the witpload tool into CSV files, you can easily copy-paste large amounts of data into your mods and then "fine-tune" via the editor.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

Cavalry Corp wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:51 am Thanks for the ARD info - I added them to my mod if you do not mind?

Cav
Anything useful I may upload is free use for anyone.

Thanks
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by seanmac456 »

One thing that has bothered me that would be relatively easy to change is that the Dutch Hazemeyer 40mm mount is less accurate than the standard 40mm Bofors which of course nonsense because it's just the 40mm in a stabilized mounting.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by orabera »

seanmac456 wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:56 am One thing that has bothered me that would be relatively easy to change is that the Dutch Hazemeyer 40mm mount is less accurate than the standard 40mm Bofors which of course nonsense because it's just the 40mm in a stabilized mounting.
I hadn't noticed that, it's apparently significantly better than a normal 40mm navy installation from what I've read. Also more expensive and a lot more moving parts to keep working.

One of my latest changes (been away from the game for a short bit) is increasing the explosive power of US Torpedoes. From late 1942 on, US torpedoes began using TORPEX as their primary explosive filler. Apparently TORPEX at least 50% more powerful by mass than the previous explosive filler TNT. Future development of similar compounds resulted in C4 and Semtex. This would give post-1942 US torpedoes nearly the same hitting power as Long Lances.

Mark 14 mod 3 torpedo (21") contained 668 pounds of TORPEX, or approximately 1000 pounds of TNT equivalent.

61 cm (24") Type 93 (Long Lance) contained 1080 pounds of Type 97 Explosive, a mixture of 60% TNT and 40% HDN. So far I haven't found a source for the TNT equivalency for the mixture. HDN by itself is rated as 60% the power of TNT.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

I have read that the Hazemeyer mount was more accurate *if* it worked, but that the technology wasn't it ready, very unreliable and a maintenance nightmare and that gun crews actually preferred to shoot the gun with the stabilisation system deactivated. The additional weight probably made the Hazemeyer version less accurate when the stabilisation was off. Maybe the devs accounted for all that in the editor values?
Last edited by LargeSlowTarget on Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nit Pickie Scenario changes

Post by seanmac456 »

LargeSlowTarget wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:43 am I have read that the Hazemeyer mount was more accurate *if* it worked, but that the technology wasn't it ready, very unreliable and a maintenance nightmare and that gun crews actually preferred to shot the gun with the stabilisation system deactivated. The additional weight probably made the Hazemeyer version less accurate when the stabilisation was off. Maybe the devs accounted for all that in the editor values?
That's not what I have heard about it. I have heard that the British Developed STAAG mounting was very complicated and often had mechanical issues. The Hazemeyer mount had a crew operate the stabilizer, IE it was stabilized by literal manpower rather than like a more modern stabilizer. I don't think you can like really disable the stabilization on Hazemeyer mount because of how it's designed. From what I have read is it was quite effective.
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