About pz IV-c's

[robot]

As you all know i play the long campaign exclusively. I have started an east and west campaign for the germans. I always use 2 sec of the pzs for support for my troops. Plus 2 sec in support for my 2 tank colums. At less then 10 hexes they are deadly. I also have a platoon of PZII. which i replace with Stugs as they become available.

[mattenhoff]

As pointed out many times here, the short barrel has a quite profound effect to the accuracy. Just the simple fact that te shell travels at lower speed, as you sure all know. It doesn't matter in short ranges or when shooting at the stationary targets, but one could assume that shooting a moving tank far away, would be quite hard with this gun (75L24). The travelling time of the shell could be a couple of seconds!

I recall reading about a HEAT - round for this gun, with around 100mm PEN. introduced in 1942, IIRC. After the 50mmL60 APCR came to use, it (the 75L24 HEAT) was of course somewhat second class solution...

Btw, the Hummel's heat round is a real killer! Lost an JS-2 to it? Was this the real situation??? I saw over 200mm PEN values in the log!!![:(]

[harlekwin]

It is overrated. The L24 is being given performance not in keeping with its ballistic envelope. I suspect the reason behind this is an attempt to synthesize the percieved performance with human factors instead af a clinical look at the engineering ones.

The MV alone was 68.75% of the M3 add in turret traverse, and the stabilizer, and there are other reasons I suspect that more is being modeled than pure performance in an engineering sense.

My opinion is that eqpt. should be modeled based on engineering performance and that Human factors are modeled by Morale/EXP....

thus the Kar-98 would not have 3 to 7 sets of stats in my vision.

Others have different perspectives on this issue.

[JJKettunen]

Muzzle velocity of 7.5cm KwK L/24 with APCBC-ammo is only 385m/s...One can compare it to other German guns with similar calibre and shell weights but better calibre length and muzzle velocity, and see that its accuracy is definitely overrated in the game.

Anyway there seems to be an overall tendency to improve every gun of the game, not systematically of course [;)], which brings their performance more close to modern day statistics, not WWII...

[Frank W.]

ORIGINAL: Keke

Muzzle velocity of 7.5cm KwK L/24 with APCBC-ammo is only 385m/s...One can compare it to other German guns with similar calibre and shell weights but better calibre length and muzzle velocity, and see that its accuracy is definitely overrated in the game.

Anyway there seems to be an overall tendency to improve every gun of the game, not systematically of course [;)], which brings their performance more close to modern day statistics, not WWII...

this is perhaps an early version of SPmodern ???

hey hurrayyyyy !!![:D]

[JJKettunen]

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

ORIGINAL: Keke

Muzzle velocity of 7.5cm KwK L/24 with APCBC-ammo is only 385m/s...One can compare it to other German guns with similar calibre and shell weights but better calibre length and muzzle velocity, and see that its accuracy is definitely overrated in the game.

Anyway there seems to be an overall tendency to improve every gun of the game, not systematically of course [;)], which brings their performance more close to modern day statistics, not WWII...

this is perhaps an early version of SPmodern ???

hey hurrayyyyy !!![:D]

Well, it has been done already...

[BulletMagnet]

So the pzIVc is as acurate as a sherman 75mm and as deadly?Sounds odd to me but im not a number cruncher.I thought lenght of barrel + improved acuracy?Is a sherman 105 the same way?

[Voriax]

Shermans M3 gun is more accurate and has almost twice the penetration power.

Point is, when you have relatively hard hitting 75mm gun against T-26, BT-7, and Brit Cruiser class tanks (paper thin armour) even a short barreled gun is deadly. Oh and Sherman M4A3 has also better fire control.

The 37mm guns may have bigger point blank penetration but their rounds lose energy faster so after a certain point the edge in power goes to the more massive round.


Voriax

[BulletMagnet]

So do you guys use them as anti heavy armor tanks or close inf support? I usually find them useful against matildas which i can't penetrate with my pz=III's.Also why does my pzIIc's seem deadly up close with the apc rounds.Surely the Germans didnt run these up to Mbt's at point blank and start shooting? I have killed very heavy tanks with this tactic and it dosnt seem right.

[Voriax]

Well, they work in both roles. I'd say anti-armour as long as the AP ammo supply lasts. Of course this varies, depending of need.
The Pz-II's have a small amount of APCR ammunition with pen about 60. So when you are close with them you get high accuracy and rather deadly round. I don't consider Pz-II's especially effective...they usually go ahead of Pz-III/IV's as I consider loss of one Pz-II in ambush is 'acceptable loss'
As for tactic..well..the opfire eventually quits/lessens thus you can go close..not as easily as in original Steel Panthers but still.

Voriax