Periscopes broken?

[Mitchell_Gant]

Hello I hope you are well,

Please excuse me if I'm missing something obvious but it would seem periscopes don't work.

Load any scenario with a controlable sub on a clear day with zero weather and do this:

1) Come to periscope depth.
2) Click on your sub and then click on sensors.
3) Regarding the "Mk1 eyeball" sensor, under the "status" column it always says "Not operating (submarine must be surfaced for lookouts to be on watch)."

Nomatter which scenario one loads, Mk1 eyeball visual contact is never in the detections list on a contact when IRL at periscope depth it definitely would be (I also checked the weather and it's a clear day, smooth seas in perfect daylight). So if one's eyes are "not operating" at periscope depth, we must therefore conclude periscopes in C:MO don't work?

Btw this is on public beta v1.05 build 1328.2 so it might just be that? If so, please let me know so I can switch back to the stable branch to fix it, cheers and thanks for any help.

All the best to you,
Claivy

[rosarioed]

Hello Mitchell_Gant.

Could you post a savefile with the issue happening?

[Mitchell_Gant]

Thank you very much for your reply,

Yes I could post a save file but not for a few hours until I get home. In the meantime, could you possibly just do a quick confirmation check that your "mk1 eyeball" works at periscope depth in the sensors list without having to surface the sub? If so, then the bug is obviously 1) a specific issue with the beta branch or 2) something else causing it at my end, in which case I will simply re-install and report back, thanks.

[rosarioed]

The sensor activation logic we are observing seems correct, when periscope specific sensors are present "mk1 eyeball" only works while surfaced.

[thewood1]

I suspect he's talking about the CWDB. None of the subs have periscopes and depend on Mk 1 eyeball. Even subs that are common between CWDB and DB3K have no pericope in CWDB, even though the DB3K sub has a periscope. US SSN Los Angeles Flight 1 is a good example. A couple years ago it was realized that not having a periscope in CWDBs was an issue. So Mk 1 eyeball usable at periscope depth was added to all CWDB subs. It kind of fixed the problem, but not completely. I haven't checked, but it sounds like something reset the CWDB subs to be blind again. I'll run a couple tests today.

I could be completely wrong on this but will find out.

[thewood1]

Attached are two scenarios using a Whiskey class sub that is in both CWDB 499 and DB3K 499. Here are the sensor lists from the db viewer.

The first is from CWDB. Note no periscope listed.

Screenshot 2023-06-08 055906.jpg (415.03 KiB) Viewed 672 times

The second is from DB3K. Note a couple generic periscope sensors.

Screenshot 2023-06-08 060028.jpg (472.49 KiB) Viewed 672 times

The attached scenarios are a Whiskey class sub moving towards a CVN. If the sub is at periscope depth in the CWDB version, the eyeball never detects it. It eventually detects it with sonar at .2 NM. In DB3K, the sub at periscope depth detects the CVN at 9-10 NM with a periscope.

So there are two issues here. The eyeball solution is broken in CWDB scenarios. And there is still the question of why DB3K subs all have generic and specific periscopes and CWDB have none.

I tested in both 1328.2 and 1307.14. Haven't tested in 1307.18.

[pkpowers]

tested in 1307.18 , no eyeball at peri depth

[blu3s]

tested in 1307.18 , no eyeball at peri depth

3) Regarding the "Mk1 eyeball" sensor,

Note than periscope is a different sensor than mk1 eye ball. As rosarioed says here, eyeball only works surfaced

"mk1 eyeball" only works while surfaced.

[artao5]

Following.
Wow, this is good to know. Quite a major issue concerning subs. I'll make sure to not play any scenarios where subs at periscope depth are needed.

[thewood1]

tested in 1307.18 , no eyeball at peri depth

3) Regarding the "Mk1 eyeball" sensor,

Note than periscope is a different sensor than mk1 eye ball. As rosarioed says here, eyeball only works surfaced

"mk1 eyeball" only works while surfaced.

That was not always true. When it was brought up a couple years ago that the CWDB subs lacked periscopes, changes were made to let eyeball sensor work at periscope depth. There's a thread around somewhere on it.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... e#p5096895

It was confirmed working in CMNAO 5-6 years ago.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... b#p3751882

[thewood1]

Following.
Wow, this is good to know. Quite a major issue concerning subs. I'll make sure to not play any scenarios where subs at periscope depth are needed.

Might want to read a little more closely. Its only in CWDB scenarios.

[blu3s]

That was not always true. When it was brought up a couple years ago that the CWDB subs lacked periscopes, changes were made to let eyeball sensor work at periscope depth. There's a thread around somewhere on it.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... e#p5096895

It was confirmed working in CMNAO 5-6 years ago.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... b#p3751882

Interesting, I didn't know that, I'm not that veteran . As I understands, in DB3K periscope is a different sensor, and in CWDB it's through Mk 1 Eyeball?

[Mitchell_Gant]

Thanks for the replies guys, it is very much appreciated!

UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED

Well I started a new scenario and boom everything works now. I can only guess it was down to when I saved during the main branch, updated to the beta and continued the same mission still saving, because my issue was simply the periscope sensors were literally missing from the list. However the mk1 eyeball sensor WAS there, so the fact it was "not operational at periscope depth" definitely helped to confuse the issue, I must admit

PS: I'm almost tempted to send this problem to ChatGPT and sit back as it blows itself up in a logic bomb (Captain Kirk style)

Cheers and all the best,
Claivy

[thewood1]

I'm seeing the issue in CWDB in both versions. Were you using CWDB scenarios.

[thewood1]

Just to make sure I'm not crazy, I retested in 1307.18 CWDB. As you can see, the sub never detects with eyeball at periscope depth with the unmoving CVN in daylight, no clouds, no rain, and in a sea state of 0.

Screenshot 2023-06-09 064414.jpg (345.16 KiB) Viewed 555 times

The sub eventually detects the CVN with the sonar within 0.1 nm. The message log shows this. God's Eye view is on.

[thewood1]

And to confirm the 64-bit beta has the same issue. I Removed the sub's sonar and it never detects the CVN, even after going right under it. I tried it with the sub surfaced and it detected the CVN at around 10 nm.

Screenshot 2023-06-09 070950.jpg (311.75 KiB) Viewed 552 times

[rosarioed]

Thanks for the help in identifying the issue, a fix has been made and should be present in the next update.