Restrict customization of ranged models

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Thrake
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:15 am

Restrict customization of ranged models

Post by Thrake »

By range I mean anything that isn't an artillery, so rocket and missile launchers, SAM and the variety of nuclear launchers.

The issue is that in multiplayer these formations are customized to make them hard to spot which ends up with a buggy sprite with SAM launchers in the formation or an assault gun sprite with a nuclear launcher.

I don't see a downside to restricting customization of these formations since they do not contribute in combat at all so there is no point to mix them. If there is a desire to defend them with other models it can be done by having the ranged model in the same hex than another formation. Due to the fact that they are positionned behind enemy lines they should not find themselves in dangerous situations.

I assume this is an unintended consequence of customization.
Soar_Slitherine
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:33 am

Re: Restrict customization of ranged models

Post by Soar_Slitherine »

There is another strong gameplay reason to customize SAMs into formations besides to hide them. The more hexes a given number of SAMs is spread across, the more free attacks they get before it's possible for attacking aircraft to wipe them out - as the aircraft can only attack 1 hex at a time, all the other SAMs get 10 combat rounds of free shots per air attack. As such, the most optimal distribution of SAMs for purposes of avoiding suppression of air defenses is 1 subunit per hex, and thus also 1 subunit per unit.

I also disagree that there is no reason to customize the other types into formations. It's theoretically possible to use, for example, Rocket Launchers as the core firepower of your fighting force, exploiting their ability to strike the enemy without being struck back - it's just rarely done because they seem undertuned against non-asset targets. In that case, I would want to deploy them in large numbers, and definitely make sure I have my leader with the best Gun Tactics and other skills giving them bonuses. And in order to not have the launchers in 2 big blobs that can only each strike 1 hex per turn, I would probably customize them into a formation rather than only attaching independent units.
Not affiliated with Slitherine. They added it to my name when they merged the Slitherine and Matrix account systems.
Thrake
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Restrict customization of ranged models

Post by Thrake »

Soar_Slitherine wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:04 pm There is another strong gameplay reason to customize SAMs into formations besides to hide them. The more hexes a given number of SAMs is spread across, the more free attacks they get before it's possible for attacking aircraft to wipe them out - as the aircraft can only attack 1 hex at a time, all the other SAMs get 10 combat rounds of free shots per air attack. As such, the most optimal distribution of SAMs for purposes of avoiding suppression of air defenses is 1 subunit per hex, and thus also 1 subunit per unit.
You have a point here, however I find that it's a weakness of the turn system. In theory we should be able to strike all the SAM at the same time while perhaps attacking an airbase at the same time. Currently it's already very dangerous to attack SAM with air due to not suffering the 50% fire power penalty. On top SAM has extra kill% while they can retreat (how?) on hit. Customizing SAM the way you suggest makes air force irrelevant. The way I see it SAM are an expensive tax to turn off air force from being a factor. Besides as you mention it below, ranged units like rockets are underwhelming to hit units (and they have to do it with 100 recon at most) so SAM don't have a counter play.
Soar_Slitherine wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:04 pmI also disagree that there is no reason to customize the other types into formations. It's theoretically possible to use, for example, Rocket Launchers as the core firepower of your fighting force, exploiting their ability to strike the enemy without being struck back - it's just rarely done because they seem undertuned against non-asset targets. In that case, I would want to deploy them in large numbers, and definitely make sure I have my leader with the best Gun Tactics and other skills giving them bonuses. And in order to not have the launchers in 2 big blobs that can only each strike 1 hex per turn, I would probably customize them into a formation rather than only attaching independent units.
That's theoretical indeed. They are far from cost effective for attacking units. If it's intended to be OHQ worthy, then I would suggest to have rockets etc default OHQ formations.

At the very least the sprite of formations should default to ranged units or have a clear visual cue that it countains ranged units.

I like playing mind tricks, using fog of war etc but I don't want to be playing at where's wally every turn and ask myself if an infantry sprite is an infantry or a SAM or a nuke in disguise, and what's about that buggy and that lone walker?
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