Why I love DW2: Logistics!

[LoBlo]

What makes Distant Worlds 2 great is that it incorporates logistics into a battlespace where other sci-fi games don't. Logistical units in DW transport and stockpile goods. Resources are not instantly available, but take time to refine, transport, and stockpile. Ships take time to build and transit to the area of conflict. Speed and transit time are crucial in the early game. Additionally, it models a "private" section of the economy that leaders cannot directly command, but are vital to sustain its war machine. Its hard to find other games that model that.

I love DW2. I do wish they took it to another level and started introducing limited ammunition stores into the combat, but that's a level of realism that most players are not prepared to enjoy. Arguably its modeled somewhat in the "fuel" section of the ship stats.

Why is it interesting to model logistics? Because logistics is what actually wins RL wars. Nations don't win conflicts by making the biggest, fastest, or longest range platforms. They win by superior modes of resupply, replacement, and logistical sustainment. Nations defeat nations by either psychologically demotivating their will to fight, or by cutting off there ability to replace ammunition, planes, ships, food, etc. A nation must achieve one or the other or risk a 'forever war', in which neither side ever stops fighting.

That being said, Distant Worlds 2 is the only sci-fi game that I know that broaches logistics as a driving aspect of nation-state conflict and its immensely interesting! Cheers to the developers.

[RhinoDad]

Second that.

Not being a build and blast game is refreshing. A game with depth that is very playable. One where the various parts of the game fit into a cohesive game. Ones that try to add depth gameplay often gets lost in the minutia. This game allows players with varied areas of interest to dive in without being bogged down in areas of less interest. It is a very well thought out game, very thorough in how the pieces fit together.

One that various races are not just something you look at to consider their stats then build ships and play whatever style you wish. Many trade offs in ship design due to weapon types and consideration of various race ship constraints. Various races encourage differing ship design. To a certain degree the choice of race steers the players game play.

As noted LOGISTICS. One has to consider much more than just, “send fleet attack”, “have fleet defend”, one must create an infrastructure conducive to support the military. Thought has to go into location of resource gathering and ship ports. Consider where fleets gather. Usage of multiple fleet points or slowly building up one point in order for supply to adjust to be sufficient. Number of ports so that construction yards have sufficient supplies to build ships desired. Not a fixed formula and needs to be evaluated and adjusted from game to game based on resources and location of colonies.

The constant shortage of one thing(s) or the other creating bottlenecks to be overcome add a depth not often found in games. Added to that just having enough overall supply does not mean enough. One must have logical resource gathering locations and give time for resources to accumulate where needed. It happens but it takes time. All in a game where such details do not bog down game play rendering a complexity that does not get lost in the weeds.

Unfortunately, the game is moving away from this. The fuel bottleneck has been greatly reduced and fuel tankers less useful, in a fleet role, as the increased fuel efficiency combined with fuel capacity has made ships in early game in second from smallest universe size able to travel round trip and have combat half way across universe by the time one is on the third or fourth tier techs for hyper drives and fuel storage. Having fuel available locally not that important when not constantly having to refuel fleets.
1) Planning for sufficient tankers for fleet
2) Stocking up fuel for tankers across empire and moving them where needed for fleet, often with a re-top off
3) Having sufficient sources of fuel storage in your empire near point of engagement
4) Pausing fleets away from port/base in order to have tankers do their job
5) Having sufficient fleets at/near location to rotate from active role to replenishing/reserve
Not so necessary when just fly fleets out, stay on location, return to base all with no refuel necessary unless mission is 1/3 or more across universe from friendly port. (Again this is in second up from smallest universe) But even on much larger universe the distance is still the same just the percent of universe different.

[AKicebear]

Unfortunately, the game is moving away from this. The fuel bottleneck has been greatly reduced and fuel tankers less useful, in a fleet role, as the increased fuel efficiency combined with fuel capacity has made ships in early game in second from smallest universe size able to travel round trip and have combat half way across universe by the time one is on the third or fourth tier techs for hyper drives and fuel storage. Having fuel available locally not that important when not constantly having to refuel fleets.

It's quite easy to mod in either fuel or general resource scarcity - there are a few versions of that on Steam Workshop.

[LoBlo]

It's quite easy to mod in either fuel or general resource scarcity - there are a few versions of that on Steam Workshop.

Speaking of that. We used to have a mod section of the forums, but it seems to no longer be there.

[AKicebear]

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=11899

[LoBlo]

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=11899

Thanks, for some reason this wasn't showing up on my mobile app version.

[LoBlo]

Unfortunately, the game is moving away from this. The fuel bottleneck has been greatly reduced and fuel tankers less useful, in a fleet role, as the increased fuel efficiency combined with fuel capacity has made ships in early game in second from smallest universe size able to travel round trip and have combat half way across universe by the time one is on the third or fourth tier techs for hyper drives and fuel storage. Having fuel available locally not that important when not constantly having to refuel fleets.
1) Planning for sufficient tankers for fleet
2) Stocking up fuel for tankers across empire and moving them where needed for fleet, often with a re-top off
3) Having sufficient sources of fuel storage in your empire near point of engagement
4) Pausing fleets away from port/base in order to have tankers do their job
5) Having sufficient fleets at/near location to rotate from active role to replenishing/reserve
Not so necessary when just fly fleets out, stay on location, return to base all with no refuel necessary unless mission is 1/3 or more across universe from friendly port. (Again this is in second up from smallest universe) But even on much larger universe the distance is still the same just the percent of universe different.

I've noticed my fleets don't run out of fuel as often after the latest update, but I attributed that to more logical tanker behavior. I've noticed that when I don't include a tanker in my fleet that they do run out of fuel just as often as before.

It would be an interesting tactic to target enemy tankers and fuel mining. Perhaps a priority list for the "Raiding Function"

[Nightskies]

Fuel consumption went down and reactor fuel-energy production efficiency went up. So, as RhinoDad said, fuel tankers are less needed. That their behavior is more efficient (which is a good thing) is being overshadowed by shield energy consumption gone back down to pre-change levels (practically insignificant) and more efficient late-game reactors. Worth noting that they did add the additional energy use while recharging, though it's a fraction of what passive energy use was.

As it is now (I think), operating fleets without energy collectors is viable, and further, without fuel ships. During the high-energy shield period, that would have been most unwise.