Political point cost per device

[spence]

What sense does it make to get 25 PPs to withdraw a couple of obsolete fighter planes a few days early when withdrawing a fast transport like the QE or a battleship like the Warspite earns you nothing?

[Grfin Zeppelin]

I am rather sure that the high PP cost for artillery is a leftover from the time when artillery was op as hell.

[Yaab]

It could be. It could also be a decimal mistake. Arty devices should be like other equipment devices such as AAs, ATs and AFVs. Basically, squads cost 2 PPs and equipment costs 1 PP. The heaviest combat device in the game is either a heavy tank or heavy artillery piece, so to me all artillery should cost 1 PP just like the tanks and heavy flak guns.

I don't see any way to set a PP price for a single device in the Device screen in the Editor.

[Yaab]

Well, think I know now.

When you study (and count) supply requirements in LCUs which are engaged in combat, you will see that each individual mortar/field arty use can use 10-12 supply points per day of combat(battle or bombardment). Other devices seem to consume 2 points of supply instead of 1 supply point. Now we know why releasing arty devices is such a heavy political decision.

[BBfanboy]

Yaab, spence's question was not about buying out units with PPs, but getting PPs for early withdrawal of those units that have a withdrawal date. And he questions why early aircraft withdrawal gets such a generous PP allotment while big ships do not. I don't know the rationale of the developers during game design so I will leave it there.

[GetAssista]

Yaab, the OP's question was not about buying out units with PPs, but getting PPs for early withdrawal of those units that have a withdrawal date. And he questions why early aircraft withdrawal gets such a generous PP allotment while big ships do not. I don't know the rationale of the developers during game design so I will leave it there.

In this particular case OP was Yaab himself

WRT this old topic, those pp-expensive mortars we are dealing with are kinda silly

[BBfanboy]

I meant OP at the top of the page (spence). I fixed my post.

[Yaab]

OK, I digged a bit into artillery, supply use and Alfred's posts.

Alfred stipulated that supply consumption in LCUs is tracked for entire LCUs, and not single devices or device categories. An LCU can fire a max of 10 shots in combat, and with each shot its supply requiremnt goes up by 10%, to a maximum of 100%.

Now, if you apply Alfred's theory to LCUs that perform counterbattery fire and start tracking supply use in them, you will see that a handful of artillery devices in an LCU can be responsible for 4-5 of those shots. Thus an LCU with 1000 devices (think a big Chinese corps), which has 50 organic arty devices, will find its supply required go up by i.e. 50% just from shooting those 50 arty devices.

This at least explains why arty devices are so expensive to buy out in terms of PP. They are really supply-hungry when they start to shoot.

EDIT: this could also mean, that in combat (those battles that do not end in retreats), most losses are inflicted by artillery fire. This is just my guess.

[GetAssista]

Now, if you apply Alfred's theory to LCUs that perform counterbattery fire and start tracking supply use in them, you will see that a handful of artillery devices in an LCU can be responsible for 4-5 of those shots. Thus an LCU with 1000 devices (think a big Chinese corps), which has 50 organic arty devices, will find its supply required go up by i.e. 50% just from shooting those 50 arty devices.

If it is the whole LCU that has its supply requirements upped via couterbattery, this also means that Chinese corps which have lost/disabled their arty devices are precious. They dont waste huge (in a typical China situation) amount of supplies on useless couterbattery fire =)

[Yaab]

Yes and no.

You lose arty, so you cut the supply consumption. However, arty duels can up your LCU experience to max 59 exp (as per Hans Bolter observations). if you lose guns, then you lose this avenue of exp building and and now you have to risk your Chinese LCUs in ground combat for exp gains. Without guns and combat, Chinese LCU will plateau at 45 exp.

The middle way would be to lose mortars but retain 75mm guns. The have more range, which translates into more chances to fire. The problem is, the Chinese only have a handful of 75mm guns in each corps, and it seems, in order to build exp, you need some a specific number of guns relative to enemy unit's size. Firing 10 arty guns at a Jap division with 800 devices doesn't seem to be building exp either. There are a few Chinese corps which start the war with a sizeable complement of 75mm guns. These units are precious.

[Jim D Burns]

My memory is really fuzzy on this, but I think the cost for artillery was changed way back in the day because Japanese players were buying out all the artillery from Manchuria as it had no AV attached to it thus didn't count vs the garrison and sending it to China to melt Chinese stacks into vapor. Now this was probably 10-15 years back lol so don't quote me on it, but this conversation did spark a vague memory that a "fix" to make it more difficult for Japan to buy out all the artillery was implemented and I think increasing the cost was what that "fix" was, though I am not 100% sure. Of course these were the days of artillery death stacks killing thousands of devices per bombardment, so the drive to reduce the death stacks in some way was pretty intense at the time. Once artillery effects had been fixed I guess they left the cost increase in and never took it out.

[btd64]

Hi Jim. Have you been in touch with Joe Wilkerson....GP

[BBfanboy]

I think Jim D Burns is right - artillery was the original 'Death Star' reference in WITP-AE AARs.

[Jim D Burns]

Hi Jim. Have you been in touch with Joe Wilkerson....GP

Nope, been away from the game for many years, so haven't been in touch with anyone from back then. Was there a reason why you mention Joe specifically?

Jim

[btd64]

Hi Jim. Have you been in touch with Joe Wilkerson....GP

Nope, been away from the game for many years, so haven't been in touch with anyone from back then. Was there a reason why you mention Joe specifically?

Jim

PM sent....GP

[LargeSlowTarget]

Would be nice if the new patch could set PPs costs for switching unrestricted units to other HQs to 0 or some minimum symbolic cost, in order to facilitate keeping a clean force organisation.

[RangerJoe]

Would be nice if the new patch could set PPs costs for switching unrestricted units to other HQs to 0 or some minimum symbolic cost, in order to facilitate keeping a clean force organisation.

Especially for the same organizational nationality in game terms such as the US Army, US Navy including the naval infantry, Australian Army, and so on.

[btd64]

I don't think that the game is going to get that much more love. I haven't read the whole thread but does anyone know if points are hard coded or not. If there not mod it. Or just do what sid does. He just provides a bunch of points each turn.....GP

[Chris21wen]

Would be nice if the new patch could set PPs costs for switching unrestricted units to other HQs to 0 or some minimum symbolic cost, in order to facilitate keeping a clean force organisation.

Been something I've always had beef with.

I prefer a two tier approach, with only those units under an HQ receieving any benefits and reducing pp costs but not scrapping them.

[Chris21wen]

I don't think that the game is going to get that much more love. I haven't read the whole thread but does anyone know if points are hard coded or not. If there not mod it. Or just do what sid does. He just provides a bunch of points each turn.....GP

There's nothing in the editor about PP cost so it must be hard coded base on what the unit is and were it's going etc.