WitP mod v903 Ngineer(Japan) vs. Feinder(Allies)

[Feinder]

June 27th, 1943

Admin Stuff

Research, Production, Losses, and Economy

Research - Nothing new spent on Research. But USA InfWeaps is closing in on Level-2. Probably another turn or 3.

Production - I've got a bunch of CV/CVLs arriving in Jul-Aug. I need ground units to keep invading stuff (and need to sent to India!). Bought a UK Inf-Div and 3x USA Inf-Corps.

Losses - Kiwi Inf-Corps RIP. Sank two IJN subs and a DD. Anything against his navy hurts, as it's going to be problematic to replace them.

Economy - No real changes.

[Elessar2]

Bombardment and Invasion of Port Moresby thus commenced. I was getting a little frustrated, because my Bombardment by 10x BB/BC, did whopping zero SP-loss to the AAA unit there(*).

(*) - So. I dbl-checked the attack values most Naval units. Vs "Hard" (most ground formations), it's "1". Vs. "AAA" it's "0". I presume this was the culprit. I would submit to update the attack value of Naval units vs. AAA to be whatever is already in the register for the given unit type for other ground units. I see that BB/BC/DN are "1" vs. ground units. And Cruisers are "0". I would recommend to increase BB/BC/DN vs. AAA to a "1" then. Fortunately, PM is NOT a single-hex island (and I'm able to get troops down to kill the AAA). If it was a single-hex island, it would have take a LOT of bombs to take it out.

That was just an oversight, added to my list of fixes. My reasoning at the time, as such, was that AA units aren't front line, so nobody in their right mind would use them as island garrisons, but of course they can if so desired (c.f. vanilla's AA unit in Malta).

Again wish there was an editor toggle to get back multiple attacks for at-sea amphibs. That patch fix remedied the gamey aspects of wandering amphibs in the European theatre, but porked them against all the single-hex Pacific islands.

Your opponent had a very cogent set of observations in the PM he sent me last night-would love to hear your thoughts on his perspective.

[Feinder]

Yeah, figured the AAA was an oops. It least that one is easy to update.

We chatted this afternoon (hes one of my brothers).

Yes, he had a lot to say, and i saw your response.

Id have to pull it up to reply all of it. Top of my head...

We agreed house rule for column 5.

The nukes.. i'll leave those details to yall. My take would be, if i cant get onto manilla-okinawa or otherwise get in range, nuke is moot. I'm still not sure i can get to Manilla. But the coming in-game year should be telling in that regard.

On the one hand, i like fewer ports as it diminushes port-atk-port. but that means every non-port island location becomes irrelevant, because theres no way to get troops on/off of them without a port. You could only use planes or amphib invasion to even garrison. So i think players would largely(?) disregard them. If it were me, i'd tinker with other things first, see the aggregate impact of other changes, then come back to number of ports later.

I did like your suggestion of 3 port sizes.

Honestly, i kinda feel that subs are "ok" right now. Are they effective as strat vs convoys? No. But you can employ them as scouts. And you can use them against naval if you keep your head down. I feel like i have healthy respect for his employment of subs (keeps me on my toes), and certainly my DDs get a lot of use, and it can be unpleasent encounter a swarm of subs without DDs, ouch.

Fwiw, i did a test or three that reduced port defenses to 0. Makes ships more vulnerable if the are attacked in port (bombardmet). It did provided higher damage (avoiding hiding in ports). But it also breaks pearl harbor attack. You can damage a bunch of ships with the air, then finish them off with KBs escorts and the 2 subs. So improve something, break something else. So thats why id just leave the port thing alone. At least the port-atk-port is known mechanic, it is what is, start with lower hanging fruit.

I pointed out to him that my retreat from southern china was deliberate, to spread him out, and yes, agreed with him that with no mpp locatiins, the territory was now a worthless expense for him. I expect that he wont make the same mistake twice.

[Feinder]

Re-skimmed the PMs. Lots of good ideas being tossed around. And youre on top of sifting thru all the suggestions. Thanks again for your time and dedication to this mod Elessar!

[Elessar2]

No problem.

My dilemma is whether to go for playability, or historical accuracy.

As you might tell, I tend to lean towards the latter. However, I get seriously bugged when the German player gets a "minor victory" when the end date finally arrives, despite the fact that the Western Allies and Soviets are about to crush the Reich like an egg. I would like the underdog side to actually have a chance of a win, and not just hang on to the bitter end by its collective fingernails just to satisfy some arbitrary "victory" condition somewhere that the historical parties had zero interest or even knowledge of.

So yeah I could make China more gettable (your observation is exactly why the IJA leadership didn't bother to push inland from those southern ports, until Operation Ichi-Go of course and even then the final results were relatively modest). But if I do so then that could have a snowball effect and cause the equilibrium to tilt dangerously towards the Japanese, requiring something else to shift things back to the Allies.

I will say that the last AAR here (tho posted in my release thread: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &start=160) had the Japanese player going whole hog into China and taking much more territory than you have so far.

[Feinder]

July 15th, 1943

India

He continued strikes against my Oz/Kiwi units in the south of India with Carrier and LBA. Damaged the Kiwi Inf-Div. I've pulled replacements for the Inf-Div and Inf-Corp as they have been pulled back from the coast. I'm thinking that, he's going to want to reinforce those guys in the south, esp since he still has the port, and I can't fully box him in without being pulverized by bombardments. So I've parked a USN sub off his port, maybe catch a transport unawares.

In the Center, he continues to try to expand his territory on the coast. US and Canadian reinforcements move along the center of the front to contain any deeper penetration. He's got some LBA within the Coastal Incursion, and combines attacks again with CV/CVLs to pound Indian positions on the South/West of The Incursion.

I took the opportunity to evacuate Andaman Island, since his fleet units all seemed (correctly) to be along The Incursion. I figured at this point I need every rifle in India, and defending Andy wasn't critical at this point.

I've got a British Corps and another Oz Corps loading up, should arrive in about 4 turns.

[Feinder]

July 15th, 1943

China

All's Quiet on the China Front.

Well. Not completely quiet. A few artillery salvos exchanged, but nothing much else. "Mostly" quiet. Again, reinforcing my Chinese units, including taking a few upgrades from AAA(1).

And before I forget - Elessar... Ngineer says he isn't getting an MPPs from captured locations in China (like the Mines). I know there's something about "needs a link to the capital" or whatever. But it him getting nothing from China does seem off. Maybe it needs a convoy from Shanghai to Japan or something?

[Feinder]

July 15th, 1943

Solomons

His counter-strike at my fleet off Port Moresby was fairly painful. Combined attacks by LBA/CV/Surface/Subs, managed to sink one RN-CL and 2x USN-CL. He also banged-up a Battleship pretty hard (down to 4xSP). My CVs and LBA flying CAP did do there job, ran lots of intercepts, and I could see I was damaging his attackers. But damaging units w/ LBA and subs (to 4xSP so no ZoC), then finish off with surface units (which can move off, because no 10 action-point penalty for ZoC), is definitely the way to go.

I hit him with my USMC-Divs and Inf-Div, only brought his AAA-Div down to 1xSP though. I'm glad I had loaded up an HQ into LRAV last turn. The LRAV attacked, finished off the AAA unit, and HQ secured Port Moresby. I don't need naval units around PM, so I've pulled them back, rather than make the targets.

He did pound my Tank-Corps at Milne Bay also. I expect his attacks are less about destroying the Tank-Corps, but rather to keep them there.

He had also moved up a pair DEs to blockade the N-Port at Guadalcanal. I had CVs there, and the Mari-Bmbr that spotted them, took them out (final DE dispatched by moving up a CL). He's also had a CA parked in the port on the south coast of New Guinea. I hit it with my Mari-Bmbrs, but, even with no fighter-cover, my Mari-Bmbr took several SP damage, and nothing to him (I expect the port defense modifier). Wasn't worth it, so no second attack.

I ended the turn by, pulling back about my naval forces to ports along the Oz-Coast (I had a CV with 5xSP loss, and the CVL with some losses as well), due to intercepts. Then shifted the remainder of my 9/10 SP forces to area around Esprito Santo. He's got a group operating near/south of Tarawa, so having my forces at Esprito Santo (area) makes sense. First pic is start-of-turn (more or less), after I retook PM. Second pick end-of-turn (more or less), with enemy units plotted with about 90% certainty.

[Feinder]

July 15th, 1943

National Morale and Strategic Map

Attached Strat-Map with relative strengths, and plottings.
I think he was poking a Destroyer south to either camp the convoy or try to intercept what he can along the route. I was able to sink it with combined attacks by my Mari-Bmbr/CV/BC. I know he's got a Task Force south of Tarawa, and DD was probably "lead element". I've got two Mari-Bmbrs in the area. He's got a CV and a CVL that I know of, along with a BB and CA. I'm out-gunned, but he doesn't have vis on me, and he doesn't know what I have. Also I've got plenty of ships at Esprito Santo. Frankly, I'd really like to just get my convoy (paras and AAA) and CV/BC/DD over to Esprito Santo, and be done with it. I don't know if he'll shift his fleet units back to Solomons, keep south towards my CV/BC/Suva, or stay around Tarawa. I guess we'll see.

There's no point in saying anything about National Morale... It just keeps going down...

[Feinder]

July 15th, 1943

Admin Stuff

Research, Production, Losses, and Economy

Research - Nothing new invested. A couple of techs into the 80s tho, so getting close.

Production - Built a US Inf-Corps and USN CVL. Next turn sees the arrival of a CV and 3x CVLs. Sweet.

Losses - 3x CLs is a poor trade for 1x AAA-Div, 2x DE, 1x DD. But I tell myself that he can't replace those, and I can. And small consolation that it is, re-capturing PM means that Oz does NOT lose 35 national morale (x2) per turn. It cost me 1200 national moral (3x CLs with upgrades = 400nm each).

Income - Nothing much to report. I suppose I'll eventually get a convoy from PM to Oz (thumb up)

[Elessar2]

And before I forget - Elessar... Ngineer says he isn't getting an MPPs from captured locations in China (like the Mines). I know there's something about "needs a link to the capital" or whatever. But it him getting nothing from China does seem off. Maybe it needs a convoy from Shanghai to Japan or something?

He told me he is getting ~45% of what he expects, not zero. As I told him, there's no mechanism for convoys from unsurrendered occupied countries. What he is seeing is likely the Normalization adjustment to lower incomes across the board for everyone-he's getting the full income from a given mine or city, but just spread across 2 maybe 3 turns.

Or, since the Chinese income is interpreted by the game engine as "native" terrain, it won't show up on the convoy list at all. Note I dislike teleporting MPPs but as said the game engine is limited in this way.

[Feinder]

Thx for explanation!

[Feinder]

August 2nd, 1943

India

He landed an addtional Inf-Corps in the South. My sub failed to intercept, but did manage to do 4xSP to one of his Heavy Cruisers. He did mass attack on the Kiwi Inf-Div with LBA and Carrier-based bombers, and attacks from his two Inf-Corps, deleted my Inf-Div. My Fighters did make several intercepts, and in the center, even managed to destroy a squadron of Medium Bombers. I feel like the Inf-Div for the Bombers, is probably better exchange for me, except that I just don't have that many guys to on the ground.

[Feinder]

August 2nd, 1943

China

Nothing spectacular in China. Fairly quiet. He bombed some guys at the juncture again. I had skirmish attack in Center, and lobbed some artillery shells over Chengsha. Starting to add AAA refits for China.

[Feinder]

August 2nd, 1943

Solomons

I'm really not loving the whole "port-attack-port" mechanic. He deleted a USA Tank-Corps by hitting it with LBA, CV-air, and a bunch of bombardments. All ending his turn in-port. Phhht. Not much I can do about it for now, without simply feeding his LBA. I spent a considerable sum on upgrades and repairs.

Further to the east, he intercepted my Para-Div in transport with a Heavy Cruiser. Again, he headed right for it, so I'm thinking it was an intel hit. While the loss of the Para-Div did indeed suck (because it's the only thing that can invade Tulagi), I did sink his Heavy Cruiser. So I'll have to call that one an even trade again (that he can't replace). Strat map attached, showing intercept and IJN cruiser sunk.

Also attaching National Morale numbers, since I can only make 4 attachments for Admin section.

[Feinder]

August 2nd, 1943

Admin Stuff

Research, Production, Losses, and Economy

Research - Nothing new spent on Research. But I did get notification that USA went to InfWeap(2) and Industrial(4).

Production - Rebuilt Para-Div, and 4x Inf-Divs.

Losses - Lost Kiwi Inf-Div, Tank-Div, and Para-Div. We sank a Heavy Cruiser, and destroyed a Med-Bmbr.

Economy - Bump from USA Industry(4) !

[Feinder]

August 20th, 1943

India

On the plus-side, he vented his frustration (mostly) on my USN Sub. Chased it around, but didn't do much to it. He also attacked my shore batteries at Calcutta again, but was repulsed. And I can see that he's pulled up some Thai troops to Chinese border.

[Feinder]

August 20th, 1943

China

More relative quiet in China. I mostly upgraded units with AAA.

[Feinder]

August 20th, 1943

Solomons

He bombed/bombarded Woodlark Island this time. He finished by blockading both Woodlark and Port Moresby with Subs and a CL. I sent out my Mari-Bmbr to drive under one each of the subs (thus stopping the blockade). I had moved my fighters south, to provide top-cover for my ships along Oz. So it went un-escorted and took some casualties. Since I don't really have anything far north enough to really molest him right now.

And I forgot to mention, last turn, I pulled the two Army Inf-Divs from the Solomons, and unloaded them in Oz (as I'll need to invade with them shortly).

Remainder for me was upgrading/repairing ships along Oz coast. I did move up my DDs to base near Townsville (within counter-strike range of his subs).

[Feinder]

August 20th, 1943

SoPac / StratMap / National Morale

The TF that sank his Heavy Cruiser last turn, continued east towards Esprito Santo, along with the AAA unit on Transport.