Battle of the Atlantic

[canuckgamer]

In our current PBEM the German subs are sinking a lot of MMs. It is August 1941. For example, last turn the Allies had 10 escorts and a +5 modifier on the North Atlantic route. Three German U-Boat groups sunk 6 MM's with no losses. On another route the Allies again had 10 escorts and a +1 modifier. Losses were 7 MM's with no U-Boat losses. Surprised, especially for the first example that there were no u-boat losses.
The Americans are 2 turns from advancing to 1942 escort tech level while the UK is 8 turns from advancing to the 1942 escort level. The Allies have been allocating the maximum for escort research since the start.
I've noticed that if the Allies have less than 10 escorts on a convoy route they are likely to lose some of them. To date, the Allies have lost 238 MM's, 9 escorts while 62 U-boats have been sunk.
It seems that Allies have lost a lot more MMs this game so maybe the Germans didn't research U-Boats to the max in our previous game. There also seems to be a large variance in the results but difficult to tell whether it is just lucky rolls since the combat table for convoy attacks is not in the manual.
Historically 1942 was the worst year for the Allies but by 1943 the Battle of the Atlantic had been won by the Allies.
I would like to clarify how escorts work. Let's say the Yank escort tech is 1942 while the UK is 41. If there are 6 U.S. escorts and 4 UK escorts assigned to a convoy route. Is the route considered to have 42 tech, 41 tech or pro-rated?
Another question is that the Allies have a 14 ranger bomber at 1940 Detection & Electronics tech. For this air unit to add on as a modifier, does it have to be in range of the attacking U-boats? I know it can try to find and conduct a naval attack but wondering about how it impacts convoy modifiers.

[AlvaroSousa]

You will recover. He put a lot into subs and build a ton.

To put it into perspective. In 1941 historically the Germans would have 3-4 rotating subs. So if he has 10 he has Donitz's dream fleet which should punish the Allies.

But they will suffer elsewhere.

[Nirosi]

My experience is that the 1942 tech will make a good difference within a few months.

But from what I see, overall, you are not doing bad. The 9 escorts and 238 MM loses are not abnormal for mi-1941 (a little good for the Axis for MM, but not super-good). But the 62 u-boat steps do seem good to me (good for the allies), and also show that you are hitting them quite often enough. With those numbers, you are not losing the BoA. Anything under 500 MM lost by 1944 by the Allies is a good win for them from my experience.

[canuckgamer]

Thanks for the replies but I still have the question about which escort tech a convoy route will be defending with. As I indicated, the Yanks will achieve the 1942 tech in two turns while the UK is 8 turns away. Let's say that when the Yanks achieve the 1942 escort tech I assign 6 Yank escorts and 4 UK escorts to the North Atlantic route. Does this mean that route will defend with the 1942 tech? What about 5 and 5? Or does the majority of escorts have to be from the country with higher tech?
With ground, air and naval units the tech level is displayed but that is not the case with a convoy route. Maybe this should be added in an upcoming patch?

[Nirosi]

Well, I am curious to see Alvaro's answer. But my educated guess was that it works the same way as air or land battles where all units fight it off with their own stats shooting at the enemy and been shoot at by that same enemy.

So I can only assume that it is the same for naval units (including subs and escorts). It only makes sense to me that each sub will "fire" at convoys and escorts at their tech and each escort will "fire back" at the subs at their own tech. If you would have two 1942 subs and one 1939 sub in a fleet, they do not all fire like 1942 subs, two fight with 1942 stats and one with 1939 stats. Would be very very strange not to use the same logic for... escorts.

In other words, it is probably not different if the enemy are 3 escorts at different tech or 3 battleships on map at different tech. Only Alvaro could confirm, but that is for the the way it would make the most sense logically and also fit with the rest of the system.

[AlvaroSousa]

I have to check but I think each unit uses their own stats.

[canuckgamer]

Ok, that makes sense. I was thinking of escorts in a abstract sense in that they are not represented by a unit counter. I know that CVs on a convoy route within 24 hexes of a raiding sub add a +2 modifier. In the manual on page 82 under sub hunters it reads "air range for air". This must refer to a naval air attack on a sub although looking at a 1943 tech American strategic bomber, it has an anti sub value of 3 so it could attack a u-boat up to it's range of 24. I find it odd that a strategic bomber would have an anti sub value at all.

[Nirosi]

I never quite liked the way air units are named as, for example, one builds a strategic bomber and then chose the advancement of... strategic bomber. So it becomes a strategic bomber...strategic bomber. I would have preferred something like light bombers, medium bombers and heavy bombers. So then one can build a heavy bomber for strategic bombing or instead a heavy bomber for naval patrol need (detection etc.).

But yes, heavy bombers did perform patrol duties against u-boats in WWII and were equipped to find and fight them. Lancasters and B-24s come to mind. But maybe other as well...