I prefer older game types to new supposedly graphics greater

[mainsworthy]

I Just played ATG and SPWaW loved them , and Panzer Corps Gold. I prefer Panzer corps gold over panzer corps 2, they seem to think popping graphics and whizzing animations make games better. some are good like command naval ops but mostly i like older games, but I do like improvements on older games but not to extent they have done with most. I like to understand a game not try and fathom out the new super graphics etc... I like complex but easy to navigate Advanced tactics is quite deep but its easy to fathom, they think games should keep up with graphics card upgrades but I like gameplay more, if i want whizzing stuff i would play call of duty or something.

I am old, but I do believe this is not an age issue, I think youg devs think wargames should be so jaw dropping,

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

[ernieschwitz]

What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

ATG = Advanced Tactics Gold.
SPWaW = Steel Panthers World at War?

[mainsworthy]

I dont want to critisise but as an example, the field of glory 1 was nice, then somebody told the poor dev to convert it to unity and everyone wanted the original instead, the work the poor dev was put through, .

[mainsworthy]

What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

I remember the old golf games where you selected your clubs it was cool, I think they have streamlined GUIs now and you dont get that personal feeling about your clubs

[mainsworthy]

What's ATG? (Avalon Tactical Games?)
What's SPWaW? (Single player world at war?)

I'm with ya bro, strategy games today have too many bells/whistles. Playability is what counts. I don't want, nor need over the top functionality.

Even sports games have gone too far: John Madden Football, PGA Tour & NBA2K have evolved into, too much complexity. Yes, it's nice to have details, but are just distractions to me all the endless button pushes in order to play, even at an intermediate skill level.

Didya ever get one of the days?

ATG = Advanced Tactics Gold.
SPWaW = Steel Panthers World at War?

You cant not make a comment when you mention the great SPWaW, the Mega Campaines it comes with are so cool, please make it run on Win11 ? all they have to do is make old games run on win 11 and they could resell them

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

New windows is awful. Mostly, because I hate (strong word), dislike learning/adapting new operating system appearance.

[Kuokkanen]

What comes to gameplay, when we look back far enough, there may not be even mouse support. Wargames with lots of units and no mouse to point & click. My father got a PC with 40 MHz processor (AMD 80386SX if you care) and without a mouse. I played Sid Meier's Civilization and Empire Deluxe with it. We got a mouse for it eventually.

You cant not make a comment when you mention the great SPWaW, the Mega Campaines it comes with are so cool, please make it run on Win11 ? all they have to do is make old games run on win 11 and they could resell them

You mean like WinSPWW2 & WinSPMBT?

[mainsworthy]

What comes to gameplay, when we look back far enough, there may not be even mouse support. Wargames with lots of units and no mouse to point & click. My father got a PC with 40 MHz processor (AMD 80386SX if you care) and without a mouse. I played Sid Meier's Civilization and Empire Deluxe with it. We got a mouse for it eventually.

You cant not make a comment when you mention the great SPWaW, the Mega Campaines it comes with are so cool, please make it run on Win11 ? all they have to do is make old games run on win 11 and they could resell them

You mean like WinSPWW2 & WinSPMBT?

I have them too, but I learned all the tuts on WaW and the armour is in mm, the screen has the nice background, and i love the mega campains, watches the gliders land in the screaming eagles capain was great

[Freyr Oakenshield]

Absolutely. Using RPGs as an example, I can tell you that I've decided to stop buying "modern" titles, such as Baldur's Gate 3 or ELDEN RING. Instead, I'm enjoying older RPGs, even from the 1980's and 90's. Also, there are many old-fashioned "rouge" titles (with sort of ASCII graphics) that can be dl-ed for free...

[sPzAbt653]

If graphics have any merit at all, how do you explain Minecraft?

[If you didn't know Minecraft, it has the simplest blocky graphics and yet has made millions]:

[stormbringer3]

I'll go for the AI over graphics every time. I wish developers would spend less time on graphics and more time on the AI development.

[GaryChildress]

I'm a graphics person to an extent. I appreciate good graphics in a game, however, with that said I qualify "good" graphics as graphics that have aesthetic appeal. I know of some 2D games that have more appealing graphics than 3D games and visa versa. There are cheesy graphics in both 2D and 3D and there are beautiful graphics in both 2D and 3D. Both genres have their appeal at different times, depending upon what kind of mood I'm in. But it's always easy to tell a game where the creators really didn't care much about how the game looked and were just trying to push something out the door with the least amount of effort necessary.

There are also games that have great AI and great graphics. Games that have poor AI and poor graphics and games that have a combination of either (good graphics but bad AI or good AI but bad graphics). A game is a complete package and some games are better polished than others. Polish is always good. However, 2D doesn't necessarily mean lack of polish and 3D doesn't necessarily mean more polish.

There's also the game mechanics to consider. Some games are boring to play irrespective of how good the AI or graphics are and some games are fun to play irrespective of how poor the AI or graphics are.

Age of a game doesn't always equate to better or worse either. There are old games that I still play and there are brand new games that I have no interest in and visa versa.

In short, quality comes in various aspects with games, including AI, graphics, and game mechanics (among other things) a perfect game has the best of all those, and the worst games have the worst of all those and there's everything in between.

Modding is also a plus for a game. How easy a game is to mod and how radically it can be modded go a long way in playability also. 2D is usually easier to mod than 3D and having set parameters in an editor or text file that can be easily tweaked is usually easier than having to use code or special programs to mod. So there is some advantage to simplicity where average gamers are concerned also.

In the end, gaming is the spiciest spice of life as far as I'm concerned. I'd be bored out of my gourd if I still had to entertain myself with an Atari 2600 and TV. Although, my social life would probably be much better. However, people are unpredictable and you can't program them to do what you want when they get frustrating to deal with. So there's that too.

I guess we're like the Pepsi Generation or something now?

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Just like women. The new ones look cool, drive fast, but ain't got that kick or off-road handling. Don't want the fake 4D graphics nor plastic add-ons.

Elvis Presley explains it

Something old, the times gone by,
Something new, these tears I cry,
Something borrowed were those lips, my lips knew
And that's why I'm something blue.

Something old, the vows we made,
Something new, the price I paid,
Something borrowed, love was tried but not true.
Now my life is something blue.

I guess that I had better smile
Walking behind you down the aisle,
I feel I'm walking to my doom,
I'm really not the best man in this room.

Something old, the dreams we planned,
Something new, his wedding band,
Something borrowed was the heart I gave you,
You returned it torn in two.

Something old, the dreams we planned,
Something new, his wedding band,
Something borrowed was the heart I gave you,
You returned it torn in two.

And that's why,
And that's why I'm something blue.

[mainsworthy]

I'm a graphics person to an extent. I appreciate good graphics in a game, however, with that said I qualify "good" graphics as graphics that have aesthetic appeal. I know of some 2D games that have more appealing graphics than 3D games and visa versa. There are cheesy graphics in both 2D and 3D and there are beautiful graphics in both 2D and 3D. Both genres have their appeal at different times, depending upon what kind of mood I'm in. But it's always easy to tell a game where the creators really didn't care much about how the game looked and were just trying to push something out the door with the least amount of effort necessary.

There are also games that have great AI and great graphics. Games that have poor AI and poor graphics and games that have a combination of either (good graphics but bad AI or good AI but bad graphics). A game is a complete package and some games are better polished than others. Polish is always good. However, 2D doesn't necessarily mean lack of polish and 3D doesn't necessarily mean more polish.

There's also the game mechanics to consider. Some games are boring to play irrespective of how good the AI or graphics are and some games are fun to play irrespective of how poor the AI or graphics are.

Age of a game doesn't always equate to better or worse either. There are old games that I still play and there are brand new games that I have no interest in and visa versa.

In short, quality comes in various aspects with games, including AI, graphics, and game mechanics (among other things) a perfect game has the best of all those, and the worst games have the worst of all those and there's everything in between.

Modding is also a plus for a game. How easy a game is to mod and how radically it can be modded go a long way in playability also. 2D is usually easier to mod than 3D and having set parameters in an editor or text file that can be easily tweaked is usually easier than having to use code or special programs to mod. So there is some advantage to simplicity where average gamers are concerned also.

In the end, gaming is the spiciest spice of life as far as I'm concerned. I'd be bored out of my gourd if I still had to entertain myself with an Atari 2600 and TV. Although, my social life would probably be much better. However, people are unpredictable and you can't program them to do what you want when they get frustrating to deal with. So there's that too.

I guess we're like the Pepsi Generation or something now?

I only part agree, games old or new and 2D or 3D or good graphics or not, or graeat AI or not, can all be good or bad and mood contributes BUT BUT there are far more old game that appeal than new I would choose WiTP over many new games or SPWaW, its the wargame genra that suits old games

[mainsworthy]

Campaign Series Vietnam has not been overupdated from previous versions of the engine, but it has been upgraded, the result is a great looking game, but I would say they have not over messed up things, so this is a good example of a good upgrade

[GaryChildress]

I'm a graphics person to an extent. I appreciate good graphics in a game, however, with that said I qualify "good" graphics as graphics that have aesthetic appeal. I know of some 2D games that have more appealing graphics than 3D games and visa versa. There are cheesy graphics in both 2D and 3D and there are beautiful graphics in both 2D and 3D. Both genres have their appeal at different times, depending upon what kind of mood I'm in. But it's always easy to tell a game where the creators really didn't care much about how the game looked and were just trying to push something out the door with the least amount of effort necessary.

There are also games that have great AI and great graphics. Games that have poor AI and poor graphics and games that have a combination of either (good graphics but bad AI or good AI but bad graphics). A game is a complete package and some games are better polished than others. Polish is always good. However, 2D doesn't necessarily mean lack of polish and 3D doesn't necessarily mean more polish.

There's also the game mechanics to consider. Some games are boring to play irrespective of how good the AI or graphics are and some games are fun to play irrespective of how poor the AI or graphics are.

Age of a game doesn't always equate to better or worse either. There are old games that I still play and there are brand new games that I have no interest in and visa versa.

In short, quality comes in various aspects with games, including AI, graphics, and game mechanics (among other things) a perfect game has the best of all those, and the worst games have the worst of all those and there's everything in between.

Modding is also a plus for a game. How easy a game is to mod and how radically it can be modded go a long way in playability also. 2D is usually easier to mod than 3D and having set parameters in an editor or text file that can be easily tweaked is usually easier than having to use code or special programs to mod. So there is some advantage to simplicity where average gamers are concerned also.

In the end, gaming is the spiciest spice of life as far as I'm concerned. I'd be bored out of my gourd if I still had to entertain myself with an Atari 2600 and TV. Although, my social life would probably be much better. However, people are unpredictable and you can't program them to do what you want when they get frustrating to deal with. So there's that too.

I guess we're like the Pepsi Generation or something now?

I only part agree, games old or new and 2D or 3D or good graphics or not, or graeat AI or not, can all be good or bad and mood contributes BUT BUT there are far more old game that appeal than new I would choose WiTP over many new games or SPWaW, its the wargame genra that suits old games

I agree in so far as wargames are a whole different breed from EA or Nintendo. I like wargames too and 3D tends to get clunky and unnecessarily distracting in that sense. 2D can be much more elegant and straightforward (which are pluses for complex games). 2D is also easier to manipulate and wargames lend themselves more easily to modding which I enjoy as much as, if not more than playing.

I also like open-world survival crafting games and they tend to excite me more with the more elegant and artistic they appear.

As far as old games go, I think part of the problem is that the best ideas have already been done and now to avoid copyright problems, game developers have to steer clear of recreating old games so they add new flourishes to them which sometimes only ending confusing gamers or creating drudgery in playing a game.

[Zovs]

Well there is some beauty in older games, but good graphics still counts a lot especially with good game play. But what is even more important is updating older games with newer technology so that they still work on modern computers.

A prime example is the WDS series of games, they were originally (most of them anyway) created by John Tiller (JTS) back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But when John passed away, WDS got the rights to the code and had been working with JTS and HPS for over two decades. they have continued to update and improve all the series of games (i.e., the Musket & Pike series, the Napoleonic series, the American Civil War series, the First World War series, the Panzer Campaign series, the Panzer Battles series, the Modern Campaign series and most likely soon the Early American War series).

What I mean by graphic beauty is in some of my mods for the WDS PzC series such as:



Or my same modified mod for the Modern Campaign series:

A zoomed out view:



a zoomed in view:



One more zoomed in view with a different hill height:



In this case to me anyway, the prettier or better graphics on a good stable and awesome engine is much more enjoyable then crappy graphics on a good engine.

YMMV

[mainsworthy]

Well there is some beauty in older games, but good graphics still counts a lot especially with good game play. But what is even more important is updating older games with newer technology so that they still work on modern computers.

A prime example is the WDS series of games, they were originally (most of them anyway) created by John Tiller (JTS) back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But when John passed away, WDS got the rights to the code and had been working with JTS and HPS for over two decades. they have continued to update and improve all the series of games (i.e., the Musket & Pike series, the Napoleonic series, the American Civil War series, the First World War series, the Panzer Campaign series, the Panzer Battles series, the Modern Campaign series and most likely soon the Early American War series).

What I mean by graphic beauty is in some of my mods for the WDS PzC series such as:



Or my same modified mod for the Modern Campaign series:

A zoomed out view:



a zoomed in view:



One more zoomed in view with a different hill height:



In this case to me anyway, the prettier or better graphics on a good stable and awesome engine is much more enjoyable then crappy graphics on a good engine.

YMMV

this is what i was trying to say, updating the greats dosnt ruin them because they have limits that make them good, a jaw dropping game just does not feel right.

[Duck Doc]

Lately, I have finally succumbed to the ravages of time and have been doing some "retro-gaming": hex and counter, turn-based: Decisive Campaigns series and WDS Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, and Squad Battles. For some reason, I feel at home in the genre and there I will stay. It is enough and I am happy. I am amazed at the genius of John Tiller, btw. His games live on.