Secret IJN ASW weapon!

[PzB74]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 09/01/42

Weather: Thunderstorms

Sub attack at 34,37

Japanese Ships
AG 374

Allied Ships
SS S-46, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It rests with the fishes
Massive explosive damage, and the barge is unhurt....

So for all of you that wonders how you're going to get back at those pesky subs: You got dozens of
sub killing barges at your disposal and they won't cost you a dime <EG>

[Drex]

This is not a secret. I've actually had barge convoys sent out strictly to hunt subs. Barges were heavily armed and PTs had a hard time fighting them. Of course this is an unhistorical use, but if they are carrying supplies also then it is acceptable.

[PzB74]

Hehe no secret, but it took me several years with 6-7 turns daily to experience this!
A PT boat might have a rough time against a barge, but a 1000 ton sub with 5 torpedo tubes
and a 4" gun vs a barge armed with a 25mm AA gun.... Loooser!

For all means, misunderstand me right - I enjoyed it, but I think I know who didn't <G>

[crsutton]

Yes, I have seen it but not as much with the recent patch. But barges can damage subs attacking on the surface.

[denisonh]

Especially if the commander is an idiot.[:@]

[pnzrgnral]

I've seen that happen too - most times when my US subs engage barges, they take damage in return. One thing I noticed about your battle report - the weather was thunderstorms. Funny thing though, I'd think that barges would be very unstable gun platforms in rough weather, but I think subs would be more stable. But that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

[Shadow of the Condor]

For the threat of damage to the sub, barges tend to pose an even more insidious threat. At 0VP, they're a helluva waste of torpedoes. I don't mind popping one with a deck gun - there may be an engineer or HQ remnant on board - but watching a sub commander waste torpedoes like that is frustrating, especially as he sails away to reload with a CV TF sliding right into the hex where the sub was a turn earlier.

I try to stay deep as the barge/sub encounters seem to occur in my game with Quark mostly in shallow water or coastal hexes.

In this world of rock, paper, scissors; however, I've heard (although never seen) there is a relatively safe answer to the barge threat (besides PT boats). Supposedly, PBY Catalinas at 100 ft on Naval Attack are reported to work well - lingering to shoot again and again. Can't confirm this though.

A question - has anyone thought about making barges worth fractional point values? Say 10 sunk for 1VP or something like that. Almost along the lines of "non-combatant" troops contributing a fractional value to base defense. Perhaps it's worth considering as a strategy to prevent the wanton "baiting" of subs - although play balance may be upset...are the US subs that good? Mine have been (against Quark), but from the threads/AARs I've read, my results seem to be an aberration.

An interesting and effective sanitizing tactic, however - making for some great conversation.

[PzB74]

A question - has anyone thought about making barges worth fractional point values? Say 10 sunk for 1VP or something like that. Almost along the lines of "non-combatant" troops contributing a fractional value to base defense. Perhaps it's worth considering as a strategy to prevent the wanton "baiting" of subs - although play balance may be upset...are the US subs that good? Mine have been (against Quark), but from the threads/AARs I've read, my results seem to be an aberration.

I think I've mentioned this before... It might just be a bug, but in my AAR game against Crocky I've lost dozens of barges as I'm using em quite generously. When I take a look at ship losses, 3 barges shows up tallying 1-2 points each [&:]

I never use my barges intentionally as sub bait, but if you got enough of them on routine convoy duty between Rabaul and Irau, they certainly see their share of action. Quite a few of them are sunk by sub deck guns, and a few falls victim to torpedos.

[Philwd]

As I mentioned in my AAR there is a far better secret ASW weapon. Its been responsible for 7 of the 10 US subs I sank against Condor. Its not barges(although I've tried) and its not planes. It works very well in deep water. I think the post has been lost now. Anybody remember what it was?[:D]

Quark

[Odin]

Öhm...no?[;)]

[Drex]

I'll take a stab at it: APDs? they have good asw ratings.

[Philwd]

I did try APDs early but after losing 2 to S-boats without any return shots I stopped. I think they just don't have enough experience to be effective.

The secret weapon is....(drumroll) using FT. FT taskforces have sank 7 USN subs and hit at least 4 more. Most of the survivors were close to TV and made port. The first FT sank a sub at Buna on turn 2. It wasn't until the battle of TV when I was running FT to Cairns and TV continuously that the efficacy became apparent. I took out 4 subs in 2 weeks, all in deep water. Before we did a rewind in our game I had sunk sub #11 at Rabaul by a returning FT. Condor hasn't repeated that mistake this time around.

The best thing about this is there is no counter. FT are essentially immune to torp attack. I have actually not used this as a purposeful tactic. Rather it is a result of Condor trying to interdict my supply lines and me forcing FT through his interdiction.

Quark

[mariovalleemtl]

AAR , FT and now TV [&:]

My english is not so good. Please tell me what that mean [:(]

mv

[Shadow of the Condor]

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée

AAR , FT and now TV [&:]

My english is not so good. Please tell me what that mean [:(]

mv

AAR = After Action Report
FT = Fast Transport
TV = Townsville

Quark is right about my S-boats falling prey to FTs. I can imagine one of the destroyers circling back on the sub, and that's that. The only real counter I had was to have a pair of cruisers waiting on the FT at their destination.

What Quark sets up seems true enough... speed kills. Guess I'll have to be happy picking off the plodding APs and tankers.

[Drex]

I don't think My FTs have ever attacked a sub even thgough they ran through the same hex. Usually my FTs hits mines.

[bilbow]

Mine too. Mostly Drex's

[mariovalleemtl]

Thank Condor [:)]

So DD in FT do miracles again subs Phil ?!? If it is true, it's not fair and should be rapport has a bug [:-] What do you think ?

mv

[Philwd]

Hi Mario,
I don't purposefully send out empty fast transports to get subs. However if subs get in the way of my fast transports I see nothing wrong with them getting even for all the ships the subs have sunk. It only takes 1 or 2 sinkings then the DDs get so good they will attack even in regular escort runs.
Is it a bug? Hard to say as no one else seems to have this success. Maybe I have just been lucky. I haven't reported it as I see so many worse bugs right now(transport related) and I know Matrix and company are hard at work on WiTP. I know nothing will be done about UV for quite a while.

Quark

[mariovalleemtl]

Strange... We have to do some tests. [:(][X(][&:]

mv

[Brady]

Anything that sinks the over modeled and Basicaly Uber S-Boat is a good thing imo, My FT mostly just zip past them without any atacks eiter on them and rarely from them. One thing about UV that realy rubs me raw is the way Japnese ASW is handeled in the game, I realy feal they got the shaft on this one.