Should railing 600k troops all at once from Germany have any discernable impact on your supply? It doesn't (in 1942)

[Beethoven1]

tldr: logistics are WAY too easy. Other than playing Axis in 1941, there is basically no way to have significant supply problems in this game if you simply build depots, set them on 4, and use supply priority 4. Simple as that.


I am playing a Stalingrad to Berlin scenario game with Stamb. Currently we are on turn 7.

It is modded slightly. We unlocked all units in theater boxes (but house rule restricting sending additional mobile units to the map, only foot troops allowed) and increased morale and national morale on both sides by 10 (and 15 for Italians and Romanians). The intent of that was to make it more difficult for the Axis to collapse too quickly, as often happens in late game war scenarios, as well as to make it more difficult to inflict ridiculously high losses against the Soviets just by doing deliberate attacks (the higher morale makes them more robust and less routy). This also means that fewer troops are required in theater boxes (which was part of the idea, more units allows some more defense in depth, and the WITE2 map size, compared to WITE1, is too large for the number of counters).


Also, on turn 1 of the game, I set the entire Axis army to supply priority 4 and started building depots, since the scenario lacks huge numbers of depots that any player would have built many turns previously in a grand campaign.


So as a result, on turn 4 I had 600k new units arrive on the map:



The Italic horde:



The Magyar horde:



The Wallachian horde:



The Teutonic horde:



In the commander's report filtering by newly arrived units, the total size of the horde was:



About 100k of that was HQs for the units though.



As a result of all this railing around, over the next 2 or so turns, many (though not all, and I was careful how I did it) of my rails were completely and utterly overloaded. Here for example in the Caucasus (and also elsewhere), I used 32,500 rail capacity on the rail lines on railing troops. The number literally does not go higher than that.





So, how did my supply look? Glad you asked:

Turn 4 logistics:



Turn 5 logistics:



Turn 6 logistics:



Turn 7 logistics:



So, my supply has been basically perfect throughout, with nearly all of my units having 130% supply and ammo or so this entire time.

Finally, here is turn 2 logistics (the first Axis turn, so these are the default logistics on the first turn before I was able to change any settings, for a baseline comparison):



That is presumably more what supply is supposed to be like, and what it is for the AI or for novice players who don't know how to use the logistics system.



This excellent supply was also not just a result of having a lot of freight stored up in front line depots, because this is StB, and you start with relatively few depots and relatively little freight, compared to what you would have in a grand campaign. The weather has also been a mix of blizzard and snow this entire time, which supposedly is meant to make logistics more difficult, but in practice has no discernible effect (other than in 1941).

I also have not even bothered to use pulsing or other special techniques that Axis normally needs to use in 1941. I have just been running my logistics the same way as I would for the Soviets, putting priority 4 depots near the front and letting supply priority 4 do its thing.



You might also be wondering, how are my trucks doing through all of this? Excellently, thanks for asking!

Here was turn 6:



And here is turn 7. The weather was blizzard, but since I have now had a few turns to build depots, my repair pool nonetheless has started to go DOWN by nearly a thousand:



And here was the starting situation on turn 2 (first Axis turn):



So at the start of the game, I had a deficit of 31,359 trucks in my units. (297116 - 265757 = 31359)

And over the past few turns, that deficit has gone down to only lacking 24183 trucks in my units. (322501 - 298318 = 24183)

That is also despite doing ridiculous things like Staying in Demyansk, and some of my supply trucks into Demyansk have had to go through literally 5 separate ZOC-ZOC movements.



I am EASILY outproducing my truck losses. Not just by a bit, but by a lot. Over these first 7 turns, I produced 21,160 trucks:



Meanwhile, this whole time, despite putting as much pressure on my logistics system as I possibly could, I have only lost a grand total of 15,593 trucks.



If you are a discerning reader, you may notice that I lost 4,799 trucks this particular, which seems like a lot. Maybe my wanton logistical profligacy is finally coming back to bite me? But alas, no, that is misleading. 63% of those truck losses, or 3061 trucks, were from a single battle in the Stalingrad pocket where I had 3 mobile divisions surrender:



Needless to say I am not going to be having 3 mobile divisions surrendering in every future turn.

So I only lost 1,738 trucks from other sources such as logistics, which is trivial compared to the ~3500 trucks I produce per turn.



Literally there is no reason to not just set everything on supply priority 4 and rail units wildly hither and thither about the map, without concern of any kind for supply or logistics. At least starting in 1942, after the special Axis logistics penalties disappear. After that, the regular logistics system comes into its own (the same one the Soviets have the entire game), and the regular logistics system makes it extremely difficult to have significant supply problems.



btw, if you are interested in more details, full AAR is here on discord - https://discord.com/channels/9438273612 ... 3182607390

[Jango32]

This is more so a result of being on the defensive rather than on the offensive as Axis. But yes, fundamentally this is about in line with how the NSS & supply priority mechanics work. You demand more freight, more freight is generated.

It's probably less than ideal but I don't see major changes happening to the logistics system at this point in time.

[rickwarintheeast]

From the Red Army perspective,

The army is deployed fairly consistent with the supply system. Supply is still reasonable near Leningrad though the counter-offensive (before game starts) failed, as well as the Moscow area, and outside Stalingrad. The Northwest and Kalinin Fronts are spread thin, with poor rail support. Further south, times are also lean for the Kalinin Front, for the same reason. Far to the south, the Red Army is backed up against the Black Sea and Azov(?), with a thin rail keeping them from disaster.

But, lots of supply for Stalingrad, the Rhzev Salient, and east of Leningrad. After the trap snaps shut at Stalingrad, everything changes, and supply becomes a major Red Army challenge, especially after the Axis withdraws toward Smolensk, and finally abandons Stalingrad and falls back to the Don.

Again from the Red Army perspective:

1 - Until Stalingrad falls, there are no practical rail links toward Rostov...so offensive operations are limited...even if troops are available --- alas the Germans may be short of combat quality formations, but don't lack for supply

2 - Taking Smolensk is a long and bloody enterprise, hampered by lack of rails and struggling depots, over miserable terrain -- negating almost all mobile formations --- against which the Germans have seemingly unlimited supplies for their troops

3 - Large actions near Leningrad are possible -- for both sides --- but this is a side-show

4 - Once Stalingrad finally falls, refitting all those damaged units will dominate refits and replacements for weeks and weeks...resulting in a better supply situation on the Don, but a chronic shortage of units in the dangerous sparring match with the German armor

5 - The key to taking and holding ground will depend on breaking up the German North-South (actually NW - SE) rail lines...until they are cut, the Germans will rail stuff all over to their heart's content, resulting in a bloodbath for each tile...with mobile action almost impossible, especially up north

6 - The ebb-and-flow continues until Gomel falls, breaking the Germans into two separate armies, one north of the Pripyat Marches, and the other south...after which the south easily falls in the sprint across Ukraine to knock Romania and Bulgaria out of the war...while the northern armies watch the familiar path of conquest: Smolensk --> Minsk --> Warsaw --> Poznan --> Berlin, trying to get their before the opportunistic Americans snatch the rightful reward from the long suffering Russians

Regards,

Rick