Going on 4 years now!

[M4Jess]

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

wow...another thread snowballing it's way to being locked down eh? [8|]

I think this will be it for me here in regard to posting...time to make a quick note and then put the Gone Fishing sign in the door window.

Here's my 3 points:
Informative:
Forums are supposed to promote the sharing of ideas and then the debate of the points those ideas contain. Not everyone will like everything they read...and in a forum setting they should be allowed to post their opinions [and] any facts with cited sources which they feel shows their stance to have substance.

Fun
Yes...that dreaded "F" word. Forums should also contain some humor...otherwise they would be boring beyond belief. If they were just the citing of all fact...then this place would be nothing more than an online library. Ever notice how much fun a public library is? I read where someone said that they hated the forums when there was too little exchange of information and too much banter...well now you have information galore floating about and very little humor outside of sarcasm...yep, seems to have improved this place 110% hasn't it? (see...only humor left around here tends to be sarcastic)

Tolerant
We all know that there is no such thing as Free Speech on a internet forum hosted by a private company...and it is wrong to someone to make harmful or hurtful comments and then hide behind the curtain of "Free Speech". However, a forum should be as tolerant as possible so that ideas with merit can still be gathered and shared even from posts that might not be 100% positive at the outset.
Unfortunately we have seen posts modified, censored, locked down and deleted simply because their content was questionable in terms of "not being supportive"...which is sad. I don't advocate turning a blind eye to threads that degrade into what amounts to personal attacks...those should be addressed and given the 3 strike rule. However, when things are handled in a Draconian way...then the first two points suffer a breakdown as well...and what you get is this.

Anyway...that's how I look at it folks. Hope it all gets resolved one day...best wishes.

Gone Fishing

[&o]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

wow...another thread snowballing it's way to being locked down eh? [8|]

I think this will be it for me here in regard to posting...time to make a quick note and then put the Gone Fishing sign in the door window.

Here's my 3 points:
Informative:
Forums are supposed to promote the sharing of ideas and then the debate of the points those ideas contain. Not everyone will like everything they read...and in a forum setting they should be allowed to post their opinions [and] any facts with cited sources which they feel shows their stance to have substance.

Fun
Yes...that dreaded "F" word. Forums should also contain some humor...otherwise they would be boring beyond belief. If they were just the citing of all fact...then this place would be nothing more than an online library. Ever notice how much fun a public library is? I read where someone said that they hated the forums when there was too little exchange of information and too much banter...well now you have information galore floating about and very little humor outside of sarcasm...yep, seems to have improved this place 110% hasn't it? (see...only humor left around here tends to be sarcastic)

Tolerant
We all know that there is no such thing as Free Speech on a internet forum hosted by a private company...and it is wrong to someone to make harmful or hurtful comments and then hide behind the curtain of "Free Speech". However, a forum should be as tolerant as possible so that ideas with merit can still be gathered and shared even from posts that might not be 100% positive at the outset.
Unfortunately we have seen posts modified, censored, locked down and deleted simply because their content was questionable in terms of "not being supportive"...which is sad. I don't advocate turning a blind eye to threads that degrade into what amounts to personal attacks...those should be addressed and given the 3 strike rule. However, when things are handled in a Draconian way...then the first two points suffer a breakdown as well...and what you get is this.

Anyway...that's how I look at it folks. Hope it all gets resolved one day...best wishes.

Gone Fishing

Best post to date!![&o]

[John David]

WHAT HE SAID!!

Everyone please don't take this the wrong way but knock it off, OK!
This whole thing is completely out of hand now.

Alby starts a "Peace In Our Time " thread, and it becomes as relevant as that freaking piece of paper that Chamberlain waved around in that classic film footage !

I hate censorship in all it's forms and it should not be tolerated. The ONLY reason anything should be deleted is if the post uses foul language or attacks someone in a personal way that would be unacceptable to all of us as human beings.

Enough is enough people. We all love this game and are always trying to improve it. This mudslinging and behavior is childish and accomplishes nothing.

I am very proud to be part of this great SPWAW and wargamming community, here, and at other boards. Let's get back to open discussion and disagreement, and away from this nonsense!

Just my 2 cents!

JD

[John David]

Oh.... Did I Mention to

KNOCK IT OFF!!!

[;)]

JD

[David Heath]

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

wow...another thread snowballing it's way to being locked down eh? [8|]

I think this will be it for me here in regard to posting...time to make a quick note and then put the Gone Fishing sign in the door window.

Here's my 3 points:
Informative:
Forums are supposed to promote the sharing of ideas and then the debate of the points those ideas contain. Not everyone will like everything they read...and in a forum setting they should be allowed to post their opinions [and] any facts with cited sources which they feel shows their stance to have substance.

Fun
Yes...that dreaded "F" word. Forums should also contain some humor...otherwise they would be boring beyond belief. If they were just the citing of all fact...then this place would be nothing more than an online library. Ever notice how much fun a public library is? I read where someone said that they hated the forums when there was too little exchange of information and too much banter...well now you have information galore floating about and very little humor outside of sarcasm...yep, seems to have improved this place 110% hasn't it? (see...only humor left around here tends to be sarcastic)

Tolerant
We all know that there is no such thing as Free Speech on a internet forum hosted by a private company...and it is wrong to someone to make harmful or hurtful comments and then hide behind the curtain of "Free Speech". However, a forum should be as tolerant as possible so that ideas with merit can still be gathered and shared even from posts that might not be 100% positive at the outset.
Unfortunately we have seen posts modified, censored, locked down and deleted simply because their content was questionable in terms of "not being supportive"...which is sad. I don't advocate turning a blind eye to threads that degrade into what amounts to personal attacks...those should be addressed and given the 3 strike rule. However, when things are handled in a Draconian way...then the first two points suffer a breakdown as well...and what you get is this.

Anyway...that's how I look at it folks. Hope it all gets resolved one day...best wishes.

Gone Fishing

I think these are good rules to live by. Let me also say that the lockdowns and any other issues have been discussed should not be happening any more unless it is truly needed. KG Erwin is a new Mod so cut him a break. Glenn got the best wishes at heart for this forum and the group. I take part of the blame here as well has I did not give KG Erwin a clearer set guidelines.

David

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Oh come on Alby surely you have not forgotten the good ole arguments of the 4.x era and the nasty thoughts during the 5.x era, not to be outdone by the 6.x and 7.x eras heheh.

We have been arguing over accuracy since I got here in 2000

Which is why I tend to just not bother with accuracy issues any more.

It got boring.

I'll just stick to posting help on how to get the game, or make it run. Seems like a better way to spend time.

[VikingNo2]

Taunting and killing opponents is fun too, yes playing to game hmmm novel concept[;)]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Oh come on Alby surely you have not forgotten the good ole arguments of the 4.x era and the nasty thoughts during the 5.x era, not to be outdone by the 6.x and 7.x eras heheh.

We have been arguing over accuracy since I got here in 2000

Of course I remember all the arguements, Who can forget when all the pzIIIs were destroying t34s like a knife thru butter!![:D]

My point was I have never seen so much hostility and deleted posts and locked threads.

[Tombstone]

There have always been heated arguments about various things related to the game, but right now there are mostly arguments about the various forms of the temper tantrum. People got to freaking relax. Some people dont know when to quit, Matrix is at least starting to show some stronger leadership... the peanut gallery should start showing some signs of reunification too. We have to get past this crap... Take a look around the forums, very little substance is being thrown around. Drop the complaints, we all know what they are, pick up some goods and start trading again. Life at Matrix Games forums needs to return to normal.

Tomo

[joki]

My thoughts about the forum is:

That it is here for us to ask questions about the game and getting help from others frum members that has been playing longer or from Matrix staff members.

Post a note to the Matrix staff if we find any errors in the game so the can fix it , if they for once have missed anything. [;)] It is a great game !!!

Getting tip about good war museums or places to visit on the holiday.

NOT as it is today, trying to kill each other with words [:@]

As Wild Bill said : give peace a chance and argue about issues but don´t shoot the opponent.
He , or she, might have a different opinion than you , fine , let it be. We are all different.

If it goes on we might just shoot us in the foot and Matrix will close forum, God help us preventing that from happening !!!!

With hopes of more threads about the game and not about killing each other.

/Jonas

[Warrior2]

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Argue the issues but don't shoot the opponent, please!

WB

Anybody who doesn't agree with my enlightened opinions deserves to be shot. [:D][:D]

[Voriax]

ORIGINAL: Warrior


Anybody who doesn't agree with my enlightened opinions deserves to be shot. [:D][:D]

But what if I manage to shoot you first?




[:'(]

Voriax

[chief]

Gentlemen if I may quote a line from the movie "HUD"

"What we have here is a failure to communicate"[8D]

Communication is a verbal exchange of ideas presented in a semi-detail presentation without interjection of personal traits or ideosynchricies (sp?).[8|]

The more we harp on this subject (me included) the more we'll see and consider an insult to or from someone, therefore lets stop now, and get on with the business of gaming. Thank you for reading this, now I'll take my soap box and go on to reading the forums.[:(]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: chief

Gentlemen if I may quote a line from the movie "HUD"

"What we have here is a failure to communicate"[8D]

Communication is a verbal exchange of ideas presented in a semi-detail presentation without interjection of personal traits or ideosynchricies (sp?).[8|]

The more we harp on this subject (me included) the more we'll see and consider an insult to or from someone, therefore lets stop now, and get on with the business of gaming. Thank you for reading this, now I'll take my soap box and go on to reading the forums.[:(]

Actually that was from "COOL HAND LUKE"
[:D][:D]

[tracer]

There's a disturbing component to the recent spate of 'heated' threads that I don't recall seeing in the past: a simple difference-of-opinion on
one issue is being lugged around by the participants and then introduced into unrelated threads, ad-nauseum. This 'persistence' of bad blood
has never been evident on these forums before, and is certainly not part of the character that has caused this community to thrive.

Bringing up your opinion and throwing it in your opponent's face at every opportunity will only torpedo the possibility of a successful resolution,
as will dragging the debris from a previous debate into subsequent discussions.

You want to argue your point? Well you're in the right place; just make sure you're in the right thread, and aiming at the right target...the opposing idea. [:)]

[tracer]

ORIGINAL: Alby
Actually that was from "COOL HAND LUKE"
[:D][:D]

Yup, and if you consider the entire line:

"What we have here is a failure to communicate; some men you just can't reach."

...its probably not the best one to use in the current environment! [X(][:D]

[AmmoSgt]

I know I am not always the most polite and conciderate poster on these threads , but in my own mind I believe I am trying to better the game when I post. I understand the frustration some of the more beligerent posters with the forums lately. I chose to not post for a while , several weeks , actually , even before I bothered to announce I was not going to be posting "anymore". The lack of responsiveness on the part of the OOB team and the approach the moderator chose to take when this flame war started was IMHO as much a cause of the strife as the rather inflamitory posts from the "Evil Three" . I chose a different approch , but I had to chose as they did , some action , because in all honesty I didn't feel I had anything left to lose. However sweetly phrased , replies to legimate questions especially with references to cite discrepencies in the OOB , that imply the poster with the question is so stupid that they can't tell a BS answer from an honest answer is just as inflamitory as name calling. in fact it is name calling , even if not flat out said , it does tell somebody you think they are so stupid that they can't tell rain from somebody pissing on thier boot. If the OOB team or matrix honcho's don't want a unit or weapon modeled in a way that reflects the characteristics cited in posted references , then fine, but have the decency and respect for the poster to just flat out admit it that for whatever the real reason maybe , and I do think real reasons should be given, it will not be modeled in accordance with cited references , that it will be modeled as the folks who have the authority to decide want it modeled for whatever real reason they have made that choice. Posting answers that are demonstrably false such as 'game engine" limitations, or "it does not work properly", when in fact it works perfectly good in independant testing , when folks have actually created the unit under discusion and play tested it , such as my many posts about WP mortars, when how to make something work within the game is explained in detail on the forum. If the folks who seem to think they are the defenders of matrix and a "unified community" have references that conflict with posted references by the "Evil Three" then post them. I will point out there has been plenty of blame for all of this to go around. For a long time folks posting actual credible references have suffer ad homium attacks and BS answers that showed no respect for thier inteligence , questioned thier motives , and the OOB team/matrix Honcho's/ moderator never ever once posted any credible conflicting hard data or references to back up their rejection of changes. Changes that were posted , accepted and promised to be made were not made.
At any rate nobody on either side of this flame war has behaved very well. It is time for it to stop. it is time for both sides to quit flaming , take David Heath at his word , that it is being looked at , and for those in the so called "unified community" , the moderator, and the OOB team to appologize for the slights , broken promises and BS answers that had so much to do with this flame war. it is also time for the " Evil Three" to give Matrix the benifit of the doubt , stop flaming , and get back to posting references to improve the OOB's.
Nobody on either side has any cause whatsoever to feel self rightious, or that they won some point. We have all lost because of this , Matrix , the players , the guys working on the MC and the OOB's and any new folks who came to this board, friendships have been damaged, the "unified community" is not all that unified, reputations have suffered.
Everybody needs to look long and hard at thier own part in this ..me inculded , give EVERYBODY, the benifit of the doubt , and post like you care more about people than points.

[chief]

Tracer, I'm allowed a little senility at my age, so there[:D]

Oh gawd there he goes starting another flame[:D][>:]

Youse is correct young fella.[&o]

[Warrior2]

ORIGINAL: AmmoSgt

I know I am not always the most polite and conciderate poster on these threads , but in my own mind I believe I am trying to better the game when I post. I understand the frustration some of the more beligerent posters with the forums lately. I chose to not post for a while , several weeks , actually , even before I bothered to announce I was not going to be posting "anymore". The lack of responsiveness on the part of the OOB team and the approach the moderator chose to take when this flame war started was IMHO as much a cause of the strife as the rather inflamitory posts from the "Evil Three" . I chose a different approch , but I had to chose as they did , some action , because in all honesty I didn't feel I had anything left to lose. However sweetly phrased , replies to legimate questions especially with references to cite discrepencies in the OOB , that imply the poster with the question is so stupid that they can't tell a BS answer from an honest answer is just as inflamitory as name calling. in fact it is name calling , even if not flat out said , it does tell somebody you think they are so stupid that they can't tell rain from somebody pissing on thier boot. If the OOB team or matrix honcho's don't want a unit or weapon modeled in a way that reflects the characteristics cited in posted references , then fine, but have the decency and respect for the poster to just flat out admit it that for whatever the real reason maybe , and I do think real reasons should be given, it will not be modeled in accordance with cited references , that it will be modeled as the folks who have the authority to decide want it modeled for whatever real reason they have made that choice. Posting answers that are demonstrably false such as 'game engine" limitations, or "it does not work properly", when in fact it works perfectly good in independant testing , when folks have actually created the unit under discusion and play tested it , such as my many posts about WP mortars, when how to make something work within the game is explained in detail on the forum. If the folks who seem to think they are the defenders of matrix and a "unified community" have references that conflict with posted references by the "Evil Three" then post them. I will point out there has been plenty of blame for all of this to go around. For a long time folks posting actual credible references have suffer ad homium attacks and BS answers that showed no respect for thier inteligence , questioned thier motives , and the OOB team/matrix Honcho's/ moderator never ever once posted any credible conflicting hard data or references to back up their rejection of changes. Changes that were posted , accepted and promised to be made were not made.
At any rate nobody on either side of this flame war has behaved very well. It is time for it to stop. it is time for both sides to quit flaming , take David Heath at his word , that it is being looked at , and for those in the so called "unified community" , the moderator, and the OOB team to appologize for the slights , broken promises and BS answers that had so much to do with this flame war. it is also time for the " Evil Three" to give Matrix the benifit of the doubt , stop flaming , and get back to posting references to improve the OOB's.
Nobody on either side has any cause whatsoever to feel self rightious, or that they won some point. We have all lost because of this , Matrix , the players , the guys working on the MC and the OOB's and any new folks who came to this board, friendships have been damaged, the "unified community" is not all that unified, reputations have suffered.
Everybody needs to look long and hard at thier own part in this ..me inculded , give EVERYBODY, the benifit of the doubt , and post like you care more about people than points.

Well said, AmmoGranny. (You did tell us you were a grandmother, didn't you? [:)])

[tracer]

ORIGINAL: chief
Youse is correct young fella.[&o]

Really? Well, to paraphrase Goblin: "He's right? Quick, write down the date and time!"[:D]