May I say Thankyou to Matrix for giving us these games

[mainsworthy]

May I say Thankyou to Matrix for giving us these games, you just cant get these games anywhere else, it supprises me wargames are not more widespread, I look at the matrix store and I always want something, this does not happen anywhere else, if matrix was not hear I would be sad,

many of there games are so good, they should concentrate on keeping them running on new PCs because they will always be great and would keep there price.

[mainsworthy]

PS I would gladly pay more for the games, as they are so niche,

[altipueri]

Yes, wargaming is almost a religious cult.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

PS I would gladly pay more for the games, as they are so niche,

Yep, been saying this for years and most recently, to a coupon clipper.

Old Wargamers don't care whether a game is $30 or $50.
Old Wargamers want solid games.
I'd pay $200+ if the game is legit.

How much did I spend on Square Leader and Advanced Squad Leader classic board hex wargames.
Ah, probably $2500 and still spending money on new scenarios.

[Zovs]

I picked up DAK from MMP for $200 one time. I also picked up SPI's WIE for $150 once (I regret not picking it up in the late 70s for $40, lol). I prob spent $2,000 to $3,000 for ASL stuff since 1985.

PC games are nothing, even WITE 2 or WITP-AE at $80 a pop is nothing.

My Fire in the East and Scorched Earth each cost $75 back in the 1990s, I think they now run into $200 range.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

I picked up DAK from MMP for $200 one time. I also picked up SPI's WIE for $150 once (I regret not picking it up in the late 70s for $40, lol). I prob spent $2,000 to $3,000 for ASL stuff since 1985.

PC games are nothing, even WITE 2 or WITP-AE at $80 a pop is nothing.

My Fire in the East and Scorched Earth each cost $75 back in the 1990s, I think they now run into $200 range.

Seeing that your Icon is from Squad Leader, and you hit that $2000 mark, I salute you.
Love Advanced Squad Leader, I still play.
Lucky, my long time playing partner still alive, not many left that are physically close.
Have never played VSAL, no need.
Bought some boards recently.
There are still free scenarios to be had, occasionally online.
Some tournament folks still making new ones, and allowing free access.
The rest is big bucks to buy online.

That $2000 type of money is from years ago for me. So todays dollars that's like $5000.
Guess what, I'll be dead in few years, won't matter, eh?

Money is only something you need if you don't die tomorrow.
(or care about will'ing it)

-Legend

[Zovs]

Same here on the $2000, prob 5k. VASL is pretty cool, man I am sure I have over 5k in scenarios and CGs.

[Perturabo]

PS I would gladly pay more for the games, as they are so niche,

One neat thing that Bandcamp has is a pay what you want button so if one is loaded and wants to offer extra support to artist, one can pay more than the price.

But on the other hand, on only knows if the game is special only after playing it extensively, so maybe an option of donating to developer - or something like patreon for developers would work better.

[mainsworthy]

no thats not what I meant, it has to be all of us who pays more, just a couple of donations wont do, and i want to know we all are paying more, and then the future of new games is better. there are worth more and i would pay more but i dont want to unless its universal and goes into dev and marketing to get new players.

EG heroes of stalingrad , in my opinion is the best board wargame ever been digitised, but it comes up on sales etc.. its fan tastic and should be priced high untill a better one comes and evem then not much less. as a dev myself i would of hated being on the dev team for it because its such a good job of being just like the boardgame , I know the person who paid for it was a b********* of a taskmaster, you dont get something this close to the real thing unless that was the case. normaly with PC games some things fit better than others and you get an apoxamation, but this is perfect I know who ever paid for it really hammered the dev, and for the dev to get through it shows hes a top dev that will fix any prob, if i wanted a dev he would be it, I would put him on steel tigers today, but he would need persuading , because he knows how hard he would need to work.

[Perturabo]

no thats not what I meant, it has to be all of us who pays more, just a couple of donations wont do,

Okay, so somehow whole wargaming fandom has limitless money to buy games for higher prices but at the same time it would be only a couple of donations?
Makes no sense.

There needs to be a balance that takes into account getting new people in, people from different economies, in different economic situations, impulse buys, etc.

I bet the prices are what they are because bulk of hardcore fandom wouldn't be able to afford higher and raising prices would chase away bulk of newcomers and the "buy game and play it for a few hours and then never run it again" crowd.

Like Command Ops was one of the games that pioneered the whole premium prices business and its sequel is free core game + paid scenario packs and is on Steam.

[mainsworthy]

The games are just not like an ordinary game, they are detailed military sims, and we should be gratefull, the detail in them is staggering, I could knock up a game for sale in a week, but a wargame can take months and months. they are worth a high price, and as a comparison the flightsimmers fanbase pay thousands for equipment and the software for authentic simms so do the driver simms

but they have cheap options too, like core rpgs can be cheap but new cost you, you do what you can afford. this happens in chess the board etc can be a few pounds but when you can afford it software and computers cost thousands

[Zovs]

Some standard and average priced wargames now a days:

$195
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-644-a-world- ... nting.aspx

$160
https://mmpgamers.com/valley-of-tears-p-389

$149
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-658-a-time-f ... -1944.aspx

$140
https://mmpgamers.com/hungarian-rhapsody-p-144

$130
https://shop.decisiongames.com/ProductD ... tCode=3032

$125
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-865-pacific- ... -1945.aspx

$120
https://shop.decisiongames.com/ProductD ... 7&CartID=1

$100
https://mmpgamers.com/hood-strikes-north-p-92

$95 (price slash from $125)
https://www.compassgames.com/product/en ... n-kharkov/

$80
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-880-empire-o ... nting.aspx

$70 (price slashed from $149)
https://www.compassgames.com/product/na ... 1798-1815/

So our PC wargames are vastly under priced!

[RangerJoe]

Some standard and average priced wargames now a days:

$195
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-644-a-world- ... nting.aspx

$160
https://mmpgamers.com/valley-of-tears-p-389

$149
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-658-a-time-f ... -1944.aspx

$140
https://mmpgamers.com/hungarian-rhapsody-p-144

$130
https://shop.decisiongames.com/ProductD ... tCode=3032

$125
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-865-pacific- ... -1945.aspx

$120
https://shop.decisiongames.com/ProductD ... 7&CartID=1

$100
https://mmpgamers.com/hood-strikes-north-p-92

$95 (price slash from $125)
https://www.compassgames.com/product/en ... n-kharkov/

$80
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-880-empire-o ... nting.aspx

$70 (price slashed from $149)
https://www.compassgames.com/product/na ... 1798-1815/

So our PC wargames are vastly under priced!

Board games and computer games are not necessarily comparable in price.

[mainsworthy]

I think the gamers are more likely to do both than normal gamers, and you get an A.I. so should it cost more. I think what hes saying is in our wargaming hobby we are prepared to spend the extra because of the sheer dev gone into them

[RangerJoe]

I think the gamers are more likely to do both than normal gamers, and you get an A.I. so should it cost more. I think what hes saying is in our wargaming hobby we are prepared to spend the extra because of the sheer dev gone into them

Some of the difference in costs are:

1) Printing the manual instead of an electronic one, a computer game with a printed manual may cost more.
2) Printing the board, counters, combat results tables, and so on compared to a download but charging just a little more for a CD/DVD.
3) Having a physical random number generator or multiple ones for different purposes compared to an electronic random number generator. While minor, it all adds up.
4) The cost of shipping and handling of a physical item instead of an entirely electronic one.
5) The cost of having enough of 1), 2), and 3) in stock and on the shelves before you have any sales plus the cost of having enough money to do all of that if it comes from a loan compared to a digital download where you get payment before the purchaser actually gets the game. Unless the payment is done electronically and simultaneously with the access to the download.

[mainsworthy]

RJ you always see the important issues, you would make a good coder, you are prob good at your day job. but not all art has same value, your talking practical but coding is definatly art

eg a man could draw portraits at a fair for say $10, but another man could like banky do a graphete art, why is a graphete of a bit of paint worth so much more. the portrait may even be better artistacaly

eg a photographer could take pictures and get $50 , another could get $1million for one. its what people are willing to pay colectivly, its just what peers tell you its worth i think. or its the subject matter, so if its the subject then ASL and SPWaW should be equal. but we also have our personal enjoyment to factor in.

[RangerJoe]

RJ you always see the important issues, you would make a good coder, you are prob good at your day job. but not all art has same value, your talking practical but coding is definatly art

eg a man could draw portraits at a fair for say $10, but another man could like banky do a graphete art, why is a graphete of a bit of paint worth so much more. the portrait may even be better artistacaly

eg a photographer could take pictures and get $50 , another could get $1million for one. its what people are willing to pay colectivly, its just what peers tell you its worth i think. or its the subject matter, so if its the subject then ASL and SPWaW should be equal. but we also have our personal enjoyment to factor in.

I have had some business classes as well as computer coding classes. Nothing is as easy as it seems but a person needs a good written plan to start and then finish something. Sometimes, the planning will show that the final outcome may not be worth it financially. If they want it to be good and still earn them money, that takes time and effort. If they want to do something because they enjoy doing it, then the time involved may be considered pleasure and any financial gain incidental to their effort.