Gun size and disarmament treaties

[thedoctorking]

So early in a game as Germany, I had an offer for a disarmament treaty that had a gun caliber limit of 8". I had scrapped my early-war B's for being basically useless, and had only cruisers with 8"guns, and I figured this would make my potential opponents scrap all their Bs as well. So I agreed. Years pass, I actually built some B's with 8" guns (lots and lots). Then, the Brits declare war on me to break the treaty and we go to battle, and lo! and behold!, tons of British B's with 13 inch guns. Were they cheating? I wasn't given the opportunity to cheat. Did they just ignore the treaty, Is this WAD or a bug?

[EwaldvonKleist]

Where is it written that you can't cheat on treaties just because you are a democracy?

Probably a bug, it is a repeated behaviour of the AI to build illegal ships for the given circumstances.

[WLRoo]

So early in a game as Germany, I had an offer for a disarmament treaty that had a gun caliber limit of 8". I had scrapped my early-war B's for being basically useless, and had only cruisers with 8"guns, and I figured this would make my potential opponents scrap all their Bs as well. So I agreed. Years pass, I actually built some B's with 8" guns (lots and lots). Then, the Brits declare war on me to break the treaty and we go to battle, and lo! and behold!, tons of British B's with 13 inch guns. Were they cheating? I wasn't given the opportunity to cheat. Did they just ignore the treaty, Is this WAD or a bug?

Depends, remember that only the displacement limits apply to all ships. Size and armament limits only apply to new builds.

[thedoctorking]

Why is this? I would imagine that if a naval treaty is agreed to with caliber limits, those would apply to all ships? That's certainly the understanding I had when I agreed to it, otherwise I would never have agreed.

Maybe the caliber limits should apply to ships not designated as capital (as the Washington Naval Treaty actually did). And since the treaty has a separate limit for capital ship tonnage, this would effectively limit the deployment of heavier guns.

[WLRoo]

The Second London Naval Treaty capped BB calibre guns to 14".

This only applied to new builds and not to older ships, otherwise most of the older BBs would have needed to be scrapped.

Likewise, from the Washington Naval Treaty there was a 35,000t displacement limit - but the British weren't forced to scrap HMS Hood despite her 40,000t displacement.

The same applies in game - total tonnage limits apply to fleets, but ship size and calibre limits only apply to new builds.

[thedoctorking]

Okay, great, remind me not to sign one of these things if I am an aspiring naval power.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Naval treaties are bad, because they limit your calibre, ship and fleet size. Why would any nation agree to such nonsense.

[WLRoo]

I tend to try and force them when playing as a small nation, such as China or Spain, as they can bring the balance slightly more in my favour.

On the other hand, as the UK or another big nation, they can cripple you.

I suppose another time to grab them is if unrest is getting high, as the cut in budget will usually help calm this somewhat.

Like many things, it's a tool you can use, provided you use it carefully.

Oh - another use if if tensions are high, and everyone else had better quality big guns than you - it's a gamble, but you may get lucky and prevent them from getting too big a lead with powerful guns.