WITPAE AI

[sullafelix]

It has been years since I played so I was checking out the forum. There was a link to an old site that had scenarios on it. The site was DaBabes and I clicked on the Guadalcanal scenario on it. In the info it mentioned something about and AI. WITPAE did not come with an AI that I remember. Is one now available and if so is it a separate download from the official patches? I tried searching for AI but the search engine will not search for it. TY in advance.

[Platoonist]

WitP/AE has had a working AI opponent since its release in 2009. I've played against it for many years on both sides. So have many others.

It's not exactly Deep Thought but it's better than nothing.

[Yaab]

The DaBabes website was archived by Google.
Here is the current link to the DaBabes website:
https://web.archive.org/web/20201024021 ... beswitpae/

[sullafelix]

Thank you. Maybe I was thinking about WITP or even possibly WIF.

[BBfanboy]

To be clear, there is no AI that analyses all factors and makes decisions based on a war-winning strategy. There are a series of scripts (in the official game, one of 13 that could be invoked at game start) that set target bases and timelines for capture and other timelines for defending or withdrawing. There is some random raiding behaviour scripted, so you might get a single carrier going into the front lines with an inadequate escort.

Since the script writer could never know how the situation will look after six months of battles and die rolls, you get a good opponent for about six months and then the weaknesses of the system start to show. Given the time, cost and tech available at the time, it's a pretty good effort but not a true reactive AI.

[PaxMondo]

Thought long about this before I hit send. Figure its time mention this, so here goes.

So, the AI capability is pretty much as BBfanboy describes. Except when you think it through, it is actually quite large. There are two limits: AI construction time and CPU processing time.

If you open up one of the stock AI files, you will find about 50 scripts for each side. Now, each script is generally composed of a number of linked commands. Each script will accomplish a goal, like take Hong Kong, and many of them have some kind of trigger (or group of triggers) like date range to be effective or certain bases that are owned (or lost). Andy Mac (ALL HAIL THE MAC!!!) has also figured out how to group/concentrate forces for large operations beyond the original capabilities of the AI program, so there are some of these commands as well.

Now the scripts are organized by date range that they will be effective. These date ranges were likely chosen by how the game normally moves: IJ initial conquest stage, followed by stalemate, and then allied re-conquest stage. The conquest stages run largely by within a date range, bases will be taken based upon a list until the forces are expended/stopped. The stalemate timeframe is where there are a number of "raids" performed by either side (Doolittle type).

Then for stock scen 1, there are like 13 variations of the original AI file. The variations largely look at tampering with the base AI file. Things like more raids, slightly different base order in the conquest script, ... things like that. Most of the variations are fairly small, but a few of the files have BIG differences that really impact the game flow, not always beneficial to the AI, but they do keep the player honest about using the same tactics against the AI repeatedly.

All in all, really impressive. Can't say enough about the work Andy Mac (ALL HAIL THE MAC!!!) has done here, and to my knowledge done pretty much on his own.

Now, for people who like this type of thing, it is pretty easy to do a lot of copy/paste in these files. Meaning, you can work out the groupings of the commands that compose a specific script and then replicate it for more time frames, more base lists, etc. Particularly for defensive counter-attacks and raids. The files are big enough to increase the scripts from 50 per side, to like 150 per side. If you only play one side, you can remove your side to free up those lines and then you can get 300 - 400 scripts on your opponent side.

When (if) you do this, it comes at a time to run a turn price. So beware. You can add a LOT of time to the turn sequence ... like brew another pot of coffee kinda time or shovel the driveway kinda time or if you got really extravagant: rake the leaves kinda time.

But what do you get? Well, again using several AI files that are randomly (although weighted) chosen, you can get (as IJ player) an allied opponent that chooses where to make his stand. You can move it from IND to AUS or NZ or CHI or SOV, or a couple or all. Then within the defense, you can change how. Where and how do the Dutch defend the DEI? Sure Palembang, but where else? Even if you wrote the AI, you won't know up front how the AI will defend at the start, which creates more realistic game.

Now, you still have the normal AI limitations when you play:
- always on VH to best simulate a live player
- never deep thrusts, you have to take bases in geographical order. This doesn't exclude raids, just conquest routes.
- take control of the AI side (play H2H) for a few turns/month to iron out pilot pools, leader assignments, buy-out and stand-up defeated units, and create convoys. If you play allies, you will need to add RnD and any factory expansions to this list.* This requires you to pause any conquest or other major move you have in play until the end of your H2H turns.

Anyway, in combination, with a decently fast machine, you now have an AI that you can get a pretty good game from and will work all the way through until '46 if you choose. Playing as IJ, I generally only need 3 H2H turns/month to keep things sorted. It takes 2 turns to get everything in place and then a 3rd just to make sure I didn't miss anything and double check the help is working (convoys generally) correctly.


* One of the big reasons I play IJ, less intervention is needed on the allied AI side of things.

[BBfanboy]

Thanks for that fulsome explanation of the AI and how to get a challenging game against it, Pax! And great to see you posting again. Hope you can weigh in on the official .1127 when it comes out - it sounds promising, although the complications of adding bases in the Caribbean sound like a waste of time for no real game value to me! We'll see.

And may your New Year see the conquest of your life problems!

PS- love the new chant - "ALL HAIL THE MAC!"

[Moltrey]

Yes, a hearty welcome back Pax. Like Kull, you've been missed. I am looking forward to the community action when the beta clears in the coming month or so.
Should be exciting, we are close boys, SO close.

[Eeklyps22]

Yeah the AI has me wondering sometime.

After 2 weeks of game time, I took a look at the Japanese situation to see the KB in port just chilling, while it keeps sending huge AK task forces to Rabaul, escorted by a few CLs even in the face of my 2 carriers and a few TFs centered on 4-5 CAs.

Maybe I need a PBEM opponent when I get more experience (and time).

[Kull]

Yeah the AI has me wondering sometime.

After 2 weeks of game time, I took a look at the Japanese situation to see the KB in port just chilling, while it keeps sending huge AK task forces to Rabaul, escorted by a few CLs even in the face of my 2 carriers and a few TFs centered on 4-5 CAs.

Maybe I need a PBEM opponent when I get more experience (and time).

Assuming you are using either 11.26a or b, did you update the AI files after installing the base game? If not, you are using the 2010 AI files, which have been VASTLY improved in the many years since. I discuss the issue in this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... t=andy+mac

[Nami Koshino]

Assuming you are using either 11.26a or b, did you update the AI files after installing the base game? If not, you are using the 2010 AI files, which have been VASTLY improved in the many years since. I discuss the issue in this thread:

Were the Allied AI files ever updated outside of the Ironman type scenarios?

[RangerJoe]

Assuming you are using either 11.26a or b, did you update the AI files after installing the base game? If not, you are using the 2010 AI files, which have been VASTLY improved in the many years since. I discuss the issue in this thread:

Were the Allied AI files ever updated outside of the Ironman type scenarios?

I do believe that they were. If nothing else, download the new AI files and check the dates on the files.

[Kull]

Assuming you are using either 11.26a or b, did you update the AI files after installing the base game? If not, you are using the 2010 AI files, which have been VASTLY improved in the many years since. I discuss the issue in this thread:

Were the Allied AI files ever updated outside of the Ironman type scenarios?

Yes, the second post in the linked thread above reviews the 2012 updates, which were a significant improvement over the 2010 group. Andy has made a number of updates since, including a new Scen 1&2 in 2019. However these vary quite a bit from the vanilla game and include a lot of map changes: Many more dot bases, especially in Burma, a greater use of supply throughput caps (heavily restricts the flow of supply through many bases), the addition of resource+LI in many island locations (helps avoid the "unsupplied island garrisons" problem that Pax talked about), and quite a few database fixes.

These are a level of magnitude better than the vanilla game, but I hesitate to point new players in that direction because there are no variants to the AI files. So when a new player restarts a game - and all of you will - there will be fewer surprises since the AI will be doing mostly the same thing.

In sum, I recommend updating the base game with the 2012 AI files and using those for your first few "starter" AI games. Then upgrade to the 2019 files and ultimately - if you are still playing against the AI - move on to one of the Ironman scenarios.

[RangerJoe]

Another idea would be to have only one of the 2012 AI files available for the game to select but switch them for the next game. Put the ones that you are not wanting to play yet into a separate folder, don't discard them. Then move them back and forth as desired.

[Yaab]

Make a clean install of the game and then drop the Andy's 2019 AI file in the SCEN folder.
If you don't want to use the 2010 AI variant files, just delete them from the SCEN folder.

This is my SCEN folder showing both files - the 2019 no-variant AI file and the original 2010 AI variant files prior to deletion of the 2010 AI files.

[Arkham]

Does the beta patch include new AI? I'm looking in my folder and I see what looks to be AI files later than 2010. I know I didn't update those.

If that is not the case, is there a problem with updating the AI files midgame? I've started a grand campaign and am almost done with turn one. I don't want to have to do all that stuff again if I can help it.

[RangerJoe]

Does the beta patch include new AI? I'm looking in my folder and I see what looks to be AI files later than 2010. I know I didn't update those.

If that is not the case, is there a problem with updating the AI files midgame? I've started a grand campaign and am almost done with turn one. I don't want to have to do all that stuff again if I can help it.

You can not change the AI scripts during the game.

There are updated AI scripts. I think that they are in the Scenario section.

[Yaab]

Arkham, the latest AI files from 2019 by AndyMac are published here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8&t=340021

Post 1 is the updated scen001 with new bases added by AndyMac (latest version of this scen is v12)
Post 2 is the updated scen002 with new bases added by AndyMac
Post 3 is the updated scen001 minus the news bases, and renamed as scen007
Post 4 is the updated scen002 minus the news bases, and renamed as scen008

AndyMac felt at some point that he had had no authorisation to add new bases to scen001 and scen002, thus two versions of those scenarios now exist - the ones with new bases (001 and 002) and the ones without the new bases (007 and 008)

Setting the first turn is a major PITA. I am still using the obsolete scen001v5. I didn't switch to scen001v12 because it would have meant setting up the entire first turn in v12.

Since there is a new patch coming, I don't think it makes sense to start a new campaign. With the new patch I am hoping for new AI files by AndyMac which will make the AI files from 2019 obsolete.

[Kull]

Does the beta patch include new AI? I'm looking in my folder and I see what looks to be AI files later than 2010. I know I didn't update those.

If that is not the case, is there a problem with updating the AI files midgame? I've started a grand campaign and am almost done with turn one. I don't want to have to do all that stuff again if I can help it.

As RJ correctly points out, alternate AI files cannot be swapped in once a campaign begins.

However, as a new player even the 2010 AI files will give you a good "starter campaign". I don't know anyone who played their first campaign through to completion, simply because you will make a ton of mistakes and learn even more. At some point, possibly the end of December, maybe even as far out as February, you'll decide to put all that learning to use in a new campaign. Usually that decision point comes after memory of the "Day 2 Move Trauma" has somewhat subsided, lol

[Arkham]

Well, I just reinstalled with the .27b patch and updated all the AIs. I'm redoing all my moves, which is taking me _forever_.

Setting up the west coast airfields for training, moving all the various ships and units scattered around into central locations. That's even before I start to deal with South East Asia and PI. Lots of clicking, lots of button pressing.

Fun! I'll just keep going on with this version for a while until March or so after everything is released and stable.

[edit] Oh, do HQs of air commands help in training? I've moved a bunch of the USAAF aircraft from around the west coast to central locations near L.A., since thats where their IV Airforce HQs are located. Does having a good general of IV Fighter and IV Bomber Command help train up the skills of the pilots? I see a bunch of these squadrons are set to withdraw in the next few months, presumably to go to Europe. My plan is to suck them dry of all the good pilots before releasing them, keeping them in the crappy p36/Bolo aircraft and not upgrading them. After I replace all the trained pilots with scrubs I'll then release the groups and let them become General Eaker's problem.